1. How come Watts was under the impression his parents “had flown back to North Carolina” ahead of his sentencing hearing? How come he didn’t know they’d be in court that day?
2. Why was Watts transferred before he could be interviewed about Trent Bolte and Amanda McMahon? On whose authority [and under whose protection] was Watts transferred if it wasn’t authorized by CBI or Frederick PD?
3. Watts said Bolte claimed to have met him on WhatsApp, but it was actually MeetMe.
4. Why did Kessinger claim Watts spent most of his time at work out in the field, if the Field Coordinator position [according to Watts] meant the opposite – that he was forced to spend more time in the office and indirectly with her…
5. Who was pursuing who in the affair? Or were they both actively pursuing one another until the end?
6. Both Kessinger and Watts said aspects of their affair reminded them of aspects from their respective childhoods. How far back does the psychology of this crime go…?
7. Did being with Kessinger make Watts think or prevent him from thinking? Remember he was Googling things like volcanos, Dead Sea Scrolls, restaurants, camping sites and the weather. Did being with Watts make Kessinger think or not think?
8. Is there any evidence in the bed that Watts and Shan’ann had sex?
9. When Shan’ann told him she knew he was having an affair, and Shan’ann cried, why didn’t that wake Bella up?
10. Was Shan’ann praying when Watts murdered her [and was she praying that God should forgive him?].
11. What life did Watts see disappearing before his eyes while strangling Shan’ann?
12. Watts describes himself feeling anger and Shan’ann desperation? Is this true, or was it really the other way round? Was the crime committed out of anger or desperation? Or both?
13. At what time did Shan’ann’s feet make a noise “hitting the stairs”? Was it closer to 01:48 or 05:00?
14. What was the red gas can for, and what was inside it?
15. When Watts left the house, what happened to Deeter?
16. Was Watts ever depressed or suicidal?
17. “Bella was seated right beside Celeste as he strangled her, but Bella didn’t say anything.” Question mark.
18. Why did Bella seem harder to get into the tank than Celeste? And what does “manipulate her into the tank” actually mean?
19. If Watts didn’t intend for the children to die before he took them to the well site, or en route to the well site, what was he going to do at the well site with his children while “at work”, and what was he going to tell his colleagues about his children being at well sites in his work vehicle?
20. “He stopped by a construction dumpster in his neighborhood and threw away his clothes and the Yankees blanket on his way home from work on Monday.” Was this the stop at Black Mesa, and was anything else thrown away, like a toy? What clothes did he throw away? Did they include the shirt Shan’ann wore when she arrived home…?
What are your questions? Leave them in the comments below.
So many damn questions still regarding this case. My main question is when did he start fantasizing and planning on murdering his family. I believe he did not snap and can’t admit that was not the case. He said he woke up and knew he had to kill her. What made him not stop? I believe he killed Shan’ann in her sleep or while she was pinned down. Doesn’t he say something about not seeing her eyes when he was killing her? I think that is because she was on her stomach or possibly her side. When I was pregnant they advised to sleep on your left side to help with blood flow. I have no idea about the girls now but I do think there is truth that they were awake when he killed them. I think he saw the opportunity to be at that site as the best time to do it. He stated several times he had no idea why NA showed up at his house. I think there is some major dysfunction in his family and childhood that has helped to shape him. He describes a happy childhood but seems to gloss over many things. Is it that he repressed bad memories, doesn’t know that his childhood was not normal or wants to be loyal to his family for fear they will abandon him if he exposes what went on in his home? He described that his father became addicted to cocaine because Chris, a grown man, moved out of the family home? That is not a normal reaction at all nor is it ok to blame your kid for your own misgivings yet Chris accepts that he contributed to the addiction. That screams an very unhealthy child parent relationship. His parents not only did not attend his wedding but didn’t tell him they weren’t coming. That is so cruel and hurtful. Even if you cannot stand your child’s mate that is not an appropriate reaction. His parents have shown several times that they will put their own feelings and anger over the well being of other people. For example, didn’t Chris try to visit them in NC and they had left the house? They didn’t come to CeCe’s birthday party, the funeral. They say inappropriate things about their dead daughter in law. I think Chris learned that his feelings were not always important to his parents. They put themselves first. He put himself first when he murdered his children. He could not empathize with them because he doesn’t know how. He said he kept having to remind himself he was a father when they were gone. That is odd. Even if he isn’t looking at their pictures all the time you don’t forget about your children and most would miss them. I think he surprised himself that he did it and has some regret but I don’t think he feels true remorse. I think he was surprised at the aftermath and didn’t expect death to be so dirty (SW releasing body fluids after). I think a psychologist would have a field day looking into his childhood and family dynamics. I don’t believe he was ever truly suicidal. He could have either while at home or when he was done came home parked the truck in the garage, started the motor and shut the door. That would have been a relatively painless death. He could have done that for the girls as well if he had decided they had to die. As far as NK I believe they probably both pursued each other and he was surprised she was interested in him. I am not sure I buy that whole NK is bipolar narrative. Didn’t his father also call SW bipolar? Seems to be a common word for him to throw at women he doesn’t like. I think he might be angry that she hasn’t reached out to him (was he sending her a message asking to write as an alias?) and rebuffed the attorneys. Maybe he is also lying about having sex with SW to make NK mad that he “cheated” on her. As far as he and SW dynamic goes she was raised by a strong willed mother and more laid back father. She mirrored what she grew up with. Chris emulated her father and his. We don’t know that she never asked his opinion, it could have been that after several attempts and him always saying “whatever you want” she stopped asking. I believe he probably did have some built up resentment but did he ever let her know (before the affair)? I wonder if he would try to tell her in ways that people may not pick up on. I think back to an Everybody Loves Raymond episode. Ray says something rude about Amy. She doesn’t confront him until it boils over. He asks why she didn’t tell him she was bothered and she says that everyone complimented him on his new haircut but she didn’t say anything. Obviously he didn’t pick up on her clue? Was Chris expressing himself in those little ways? Thanks for all your analysis on this Nick. Also has anyone read the book that Chris read in prison? I am not sure if it has a crime in it but I would wonder if any of his story mirrors it. Sorry for the long rant just trying to piece my thoughts together.
Didn’t he say shanann had red eyes too? They never asked him about that, was it going to be from crying? He threw in there that she didn’t fight cause he thought she might be praying, I don’t think most people would think about praying when their life is being choked out of them
No, petechial hemorrhage. Google it.
That’s why I’m wondering why they didn’t ask “from crying”….I have a question Nick, if the DA is saying now that he believes this and it was a rage killing does that not mean that Watts was overcharged and would be 2nd degree for Shanann or is strangling an automatic premeditation because of the time it takes? Girls could still be premeditated though because of the drive or is him saying he didn’t know what he was going to do with them because of this haze he was supposedly in?
I think it’s still premeditated no only for the reasons you state but he also said he woke up knowing he was going to kill her if that’s not premeditated I don’t know what is. That was before the conversation. Also in his original statement he said he strangled her in a rage and he was still charged with first degree so no real difference there.
He actually said to the effect.. did I somehow know that I was going to do that then goes on to speculate about where his mind was but doesn’t say he intended to kill her, I just reread it. His story was that it was when she said you’ll never see the kids again and then it happened. He couldn’t know she was going to say that so if that was the trigger according to him it was a rage killing, not thought out. If the DA now believes he’s telling the truth that wouldn’t qualify for the death penalty, it was the planning part that elevated it to that. So if it’s now not preplanned his plea deal was to take the death penalty off the table. If that now is not premeditated for shanann the plea deal would probably get thrown out if he didn’t plan it. For shanann anyways, the girls might be because of the drive out there but I’d think the DA admitting now that his account to the judge that it was calculated was false for shanann and could throw it out and order a trial. If Chris chooses to go that route. But he never admits to planning it at all and if that’s the basis for the death penalty
How is that scenario any different than him killing her in a rage over killing the girls? He also said something had been implanted in his head that he was going to do it and when he woke up that morning, “it was gonna happen and I had no control over it”. Pg 9 bullet point 3 under the first third bullet point. To me that all speaks to premeditation. He’d already thought of killing her and decided he was going to when he woke up. That was before he got dressed and had this alleged conversation with her.
It’s different because they had evidence HE planned it and carried it out. If they didn’t and this was the story they accepted as true it would be second degree.
Again I don’t see how him admitting to thinking about killing her and knowing he was going to do it that morning is not premeditated. He basically said he didn’t know when he climbed on top of her if he was going to kill her then but he already said it was going to happen at some point that morning. The girls’ murders are definitely premeditated. I think it was also deliberate as he woke up knowing he was going to kill her which is the consequence of his action. He can be excited or angry during the act and that does not necessarily mean it was done in the heat of passion. His own words to describe this screw his ability to argue it was on the heat of passion in my opinion.
So I just did some digging into Colorado law. Some states require 1st degree murder for strangulation deaths I am not sure if they are one of them. However, they do list that the death of a person under 12 committed by a person of trust to the victim is first degree so I think the girls would still fit that regardless of the circumstances. Interestingly I came across a case of a man and wife in Colorado last June. They were caught on surveillance arguing and he strangled her to death off camera. He said he did not mean to kill her. He was charged with first degree murder. It can be inferred that they were passionately arguing prior to her death. See Scott Beaumont Jones.
Wait the DA did NOT say that did he??
if he did not intend to kill the 2 girls did he put shoes and jackets on them for the drive to the site? .
I believe they were just in their pajamas
They were found wearing just underwear /diaper and a t-shirt. He knew they weren’t coming back
Didn’t Chris say he got up on the bed on top of Shanann in his work clothes? He never mentions changing clothes again…. so he would have been in the Old Work Clothes, not his standard dress. Pre-meditation.
That’s really a good catch.
I think he said he dumped his clothes with the blanket and changed his clothes on site to his old clothes. But I agree definitely premeditation.
Yeah, I’m going to have to listen again before commenting. Darn!
I understand what you’re saying. He put on his old work clothes in the morning prior to “getting on top” of shan’ann. The only reason he would have put old work clothes on is if the murder was premeditated. He changed into his regular clothes and dumped the old ones prior to returning home.
When Lee asks him where he changed his clothes he doesn’t answer.
Many details of this confession were surprising.
He maintains, very matter of factly, that NK was his only indiscretion. Obviously, anybody seeking attention can make up stories (like they believe Trent Bolte did), but didn’t Nick uncover some online dating profiles in this space (including men seeking men) that certainly looked like they were made by Chris? If so, why didn’t the detectives ask about it?
Thanks for the great coverage and conversation. As a Dad of two girls Bella and Celeste’s age, this case has shaken and confounded me to the core. I was hoping for some sort of closure, i suppose, with yesterday’s release, but it’s only raised more questions we’ll probably never get the answers to.
We’ll get the answers.
I sincerely hope we do, Nick.
Do you think there’s a possibility that, if the children were taken to his work site, that he put them into those tanks while they were still alive? If you’ve covered this already in the group, I missed it.
Trying to discover nuggets of truth in statements from a known liar is exhausting.
No. Why would he do that?
No there was nothing in their lungs per the autopsy
“As a Dad of two girls Bella and Celeste’s age, this case has shaken and confounded me to the core. I was hoping for some sort of closure, i suppose, with yesterday’s release”
Exactly the same here, just girl and boy. That’s part of the fascination with the case, I just want to understand why, which I have a much better idea of thanks to Nick’s work.
I question if it wasn’t premeditated but happened spontaneously, why did he pre-arrange on Sunday to go to Cervi alone? What of the 111 minute call with Nichol and loud tv on if girls were in bed alive and well? What about odd pics of chicken breasts, barbecuing alone, not sending sleeping kids pic to Shannan on Sunday eve? His new story really messed me up.
CBH, also, why did he search for the oxycodone? Why was Deeter crated?
Good questions!
I never understood why he took the pic of the thermostat in the fridge. It’s probably nothing. ?
That was strange, maybe taken by accident?
I remember the photo, it was for a purpose.
Any idea as to why he might have taken it?
Ever picked a flower for a girl? Same thing, except done with a phone.
Taking a picture of a thermostat inside a refrigerator is a smartphone version of picking a flower for a girl now? Guess I’m behind the times…
Oh sorry I thought you were referring to taking a photo of flowers and sending it to Kessinger. My bad.
😂😂
“Taking a picture of a thermostat inside a refrigerator is a smartphone version of picking a flower for a girl now? Guess I’m behind the times…”
Sure takes a lot less effort…
😂
I get why but the timing is strange yes? Right after disposing their bodies and with no message.
Maybe a secret msg. I don’t think he had ever sent her a pic of flowers before….why now.
But on the otherhand CBH, it confirms that he’s a two face. Which was called by Nick as soon as the case broke.
Well stated.
As Nick and the DA has constantly asserted this was premeditated and cold blooded murder (eg cervi arrangements, lack of remorse etc) so he could have a new life with Kessinger. This interview shows no remorse whatsoever and he is now pleading spur of the moment rage etc – nonsense – he planned it (albeit badly) and laments the fact he was caught. This guy continues to be a liar. Key question for Nick et al – just how deep does Kessinger’s Involvement go – he has some bitterness there – wanting a contact??
Agree. He was blinded by his “love” for NK and committed the murders. Now he has bitterness towards her because she has refused to contact him. So he is back to being in love with his daughters and wife and his “newborn” son, though they are no more. If only NK had found someone else before August, the murders would not have happened and he would have now been a “happily” married man with three kids, bankrupt or not.
Where was ceecees shadow walking out and being put in the truck? Or Bella’s, because that shadow was only one of the girls. When did the other one venture out in pyjamas and no shoes?
Him saying don’t you have the video was an answer he already knew. He saw the video at Nate’s and he had that ruse about his tools being stolen and where he could park his truck so he could see where Nate’s camera could pick up movement. Wouldn’t it be likely he scrutinized that neighbourhood to see if any other cameras were pointed in that direction. Wouldn’t his defence team have told him about any videos?
I agree CBH. I really feel like the truth is far more sinister than he has revealed. Also the picture of the flowers he sent to NK was that a hidden message? Same with the doll pic.
Don’t forget the doll in the trash bag in the garage.
But I hadn’t considered there might have been something other than gas in the gas can. They kind of bungled the question on why he took it I thought.
He also says Nikki’s dog liked him. Could that be all of the hairs in the back of his truck? Dog hair?
Slyvester.
Once gas in the gas can. You could never put anything else in it.
He couldn’t have thought to start a fire out there. Wouldn’t there be a big fire. That grass looked dry and close to those tanks.
A big boom.
Shannon, gas can, burn evidence?
He could have simply messed with the gas can just to make it look like he was doing something work related since he knew the neighbors camera was pointed at him.
Somebody help me out. I think I read that it was actually NK who was into the song “Battery”, and that’s why CW was hung up on it. The lyrics are sick. But now I can’t find where I read this or heard this. If I’m wrong, please let me know.
i read in the transcripts released yesterday that she knew he was into Metallica, and asked him what the lyrics meant…..very creepy coincidence
Page 26 of the March 7 release.
Do you believe him? That he looked it up cause she asked about it? I do not personally. It makes him look really bad and now he’s passive-aggressively shifting blame from SW to NK. Obviously he has been talking to family that is responsible for some stuff online-he said “nutgate” And “bashing”-he knows everything ppl are talking about which is annoying to me, cause it’s going to be twisted.
Again, another “coincidence” Chris reported.. He doesn’t remember WHEN he looked up the lyrics (at 10 AM the day of the murders–page 1927 in Discovery documents), but he remembers that NK likes “all kinds of music”, and asked him about the lyrics in the song.. weird that this so-called request was made on the day of the murders. I’m not implicating NK, but Chris is indirectly. He could have just said that the lyrics were running through his head that day “lunacy has found me… cannot kill the family”.
Agreed, he’s dropped a few bombs and a few breadcrumbs too, has Chris Watts started enjoying the game?
Oh I understand why he would take and send a pic of flowers to NK it’s just the timing of when he did it. It was right after heinously disposing his family and with no text which made me wonder if there was any other meaning to it.
I don’t think even Chris knows whether it was premeditated or not. I am not talking in legal parlance, but to me premeditated, voluntary, deliberate all carry subtle differences in connotation.
If pre-meditated = thoroughly pre-planned, then I think it was not. As I wrote before, it seemed sloppy (and he mentions the same about bags and keys and medicines and phones) and it does not seem that he thought through the scenarios. For a person who has a pretty vivid memory and reasonably high IQ, it does not add up.
If pre-meditated = deliberate or non-accidental, then I think it was. He had the choice to retract, but he did not.
Throughout the interview, there were some facts (when and where) and there were his perceptions. I do not want to accuse him of lying- but that NK was bipolar, and that Shanann was possibly praying, were all his perceptions, and he is entitled to have those.
That Shanann was praying is all figurative, and his perception in hindsight..It can’t be true. It could just be that Shanann passed out like a bulb blowing out, and did not put up a fight because she underestimated Chris’s capability to harm till that point. I don’t think Chris would have had a sense of 30 seconds versus 2 minutes versus 4 minutes while strangulating her. And remember she was tired, dehydrated, breathing for two, not one.
What is interesting though are that the detectives played dumb throughout. As if Chris is their only source of information. At some point, I would like to hear their side of evidences, though I doubt they would come out with it.
I don’t think even Chris knows whether it was premeditated or not.>>>How familiar are you with true crime?
lol 🙂
How familiar are you with “blanking out”? Once my child was locked out in the car and I called 911 in panic when the keys were lying in front of me throughout. And some of you are trying to surgically dissect every move of a person who has possibly committed the first serious crime in his life, is time compressed, and has panicked. All these comments on “Why did he do this and not that..” are all pointless unless you have been in that situation. His mind was working at million miles an hour.. You could have written a zillion books on true crime but unless you have killed someone and standing at the doorstep of life imprisonment, you never have that experience.
I’m quite familiar with blanking out in true crime. It comes up in the Amanda Knox case, Jodi Arias, OJ Simpson, Oscar Pistorius, triple axe murderer Henri van Breda and apparently Chris Watts.
https://youtu.be/H0JwPc__ABo
“You could have written a zillion books on true crime but [you don’t know anything]. >>>You are skating on very thin ice. Consider this your last warning.
Despite your warning, I will write, because I did not ever mean “you don’t know anything”. I followed your site and your books precisely because I have respect for your insight. But, I am reluctant to choose only between two extremes “you don’t know anything” and “you know everything”. And mistakes do not invalidate the contribution as a whole. Sir Issac Newton was wrong on the speed of sound, Albert Einstein made error in quantum mechanics, Thomas Malthus was wrong about population increase, and many more..
My point is that a soccer pundit is not the same as the soccer player that just missed a penalty. That state of mind and physical being can at best be guessed, but not replicated within the studio. You have actually done a detailed work in building up the character of Watts, his feeling of being subjugated, and that’s why it is even more surprising why you cannot accept that he behaved like a clueless deer in front of headlights for the large part of those few hours. He had no criminal past, never hurt a mosquito, possibly never even saw a deadbody and then there he was, having to deal with the corpse of his wife at the wee hours of the morning. I may be naive in my judgment, but I do buy his recollection on his state of mind.
The only place where I don’t buy his version is the killing of Shanann. I do not know what exactly he lied about, but his times don’t add up (sex at 2:30 am, sleep, discussion at 4:00 am), the lead-up sounds dubious (sitting on top of someone to have a conversation that hovered from buying a house to divorce) and the version is incoherent. But again, I do not want to toggle to the other extreme that it was meticulously pre-plannned. Yes, there were point incidents (usage of credit card, doll’s picture) that in hindsight might indicate pre-mediation, but again, they are noises, not concrete signals. If I commit a crime next week, someone may hypothesize that my visiting TCRS website to read about crimes was a part of the planning, and try to string together a theory. But, that would just be coincidence.
Chris’s story has two parts: A pre-Shanann’s death part and a post-Shanann’s death part. Like many others here I am not a detective, but I do believe that he is by and large accurate on the post-Shanann’s death part. There could be minor deviations here and there, but the broader narrative sounds credible.
Duttdip, I appreciate your respectful and thoughtful opinions. You never claim to be an expert; simply a person with a differing viewpoint & lingering personal questions about a highly public case. Please continue, because thru your questions & observations (and everyone else’s that has posted on this website) & with Nick’s exhaustive research and expertise, we might just come to ,if not understand, hopefully, get to the real truth! (Also, I think CW is getting too much credit…I see him as more bumbling halfwit than calculating mastermind. No matter what his perceived IQ may be, he’s not exactly a brain trust)
A couple of times during the interview, he even says he wasn’t sure if he knew he was going to kill her.
It was definitely premeditated just from the simple fact he called his work site the night before to make sure no one was going to be out there.
Another question the detectives didn’t ask Chris.. Did you ever tell Nikki that Shan’ann’s baby wasn’t yours?
According to Chris he didn’t tell her sw was even pregnant. Which obviously the whole family was an open book. So who wouldn’t know. I think Nikki is a liar and so is Chris and there’s way more than what we know. And I also feel the detectives should have let Chris do more of the talking instead of just giving him ideas to just answer.
There are hidden msgs to the people on the outside in his statement. He knows that he’ll never really get to see them. NK and Trent won’t go there. Only parents, maybe sister.
He’s playing with the detectives and the media. He’s got nothing to lose, or maybe he’s setting up something for the future….appeal.
Personally I don’t believe his statements. All questions asked and more….may never get answered.
But, there are facts in this case that can’t be disbuted. If Rourke is this stupid to accept this and think all will forget. He’s wrong.
The murder of Shan’ann is absolutely 1st degree/premeditated! Because CW had time to deliberate and stop the strangulation during the 2 to 4 minutes it took for death to occur, it fits the legal definition of premeditation. Would be a different story if he flew into a rage and shot her with a gun, then it would be a passion/heat of the moment killing if no other evidence of pre-planning was found, but he didn’t. As for the girls murders being premeditated – absolutely! Again, just the method of murder he used makes it fit the legal definition of premeditation – he had deliberation/time to stop the suffocation.
That’s not the kind of premeditation we are talking about. We’re saying it started several days earlier, at least as early as Friday, although the seed for the idea may have taken root weeks earlier, and taking the long fuse view, may have been brewing for years.
We have all been thinking of Oxycodone 80mg as a poison used for murdering the kids. What if he himself was on Oxycodone 80mg (high dose meth) and that’s why he looked it up? Would that explain why he had “no control of himself”? Did someone give him the meds?
I have faith in LE that they have all the info… I hope they release their final report.
FYI – Oxycodone is an opiate, not an amphetamine. He did say the black label Le-Vel patches interfered with his sleep though…
He said the “Duo Burn” patch made him feel like he was working out all day. If he was wearing one on each arm and the lower back then he was under the influence at work. I don’t know if Anadarko drug tests, I would assume so, and would the ingredients in the Duo Burn patches show up in his urine? That could be grounds for firing him long before he actually was. Luke Epple said they all have to be very focused at work due to being around hazardous materials and the risk involved. I also wondered what the risk might have been to CW and/or his co-workers opening up those 8 inch thief hatches and leaving them open long enough to put his children down inside. He wasn’t dressed for that kind of work that day either – he wasn’t in his HazMat gear. That would be a safety violation and again, grounds for dismissal. Luke Epple also revealed that the work trucks were to be used only for work – but that he knew Watts had picked his children up from school from time to time in his truck. My thought is NK was fired for having an affair with a co-worker who turned out to be a murderer – but Luke Epple was allowed to keep his job. Just seems a bit unfair.
Look up what’s in that patch-I did. I don’t think that’s what he was so excited about.
“That would be a safety violation and again, grounds for dismissal. ”
All the more reason for CW to take the risks to avoid anyone seeing him in his HazMat gear when he wasn’t scheduled to do anything HazMatty.
“My thought is NK was fired for having an affair with a co-worker who turned out to be a murderer – but Luke Epple was allowed to keep his job. Just seems a bit unfair.”
It might be that NK was simply *easier* to fire – I seem to remember reading that she was a contract employee and Andarko did not choose to renew her contract (correct me if I’m misremembering here). If she was contract and Luke Epple was full-time, then it would be a lot harder to fire him. Also, firing him might have a different effect on morale etc. at the worksite than getting rid of an office employee. Although NK had a serious degree (geology) and clearly pulled her own weight at work, the oilfields are a roughneck manly place – when the male employees wives/girlfriends learned that NK had been goin’ hot ‘n’ heavy with one of the married men working there, that could have had an adverse effect on morale as well (remembering someone else’s observation to that effect – it left an impression).
The fact that NK’s *father* was CW’s boss there is a complicating factor – how did *he* feel about his daughter being let go?
Could Watts possibly caused the leak at the worksite himself ?
Oh. My. Gosh!!! Great question!!!!
I just had a very interesting thought – regarding the mysterious 111-minute phone conversation between CW and NK, about which no one seems to have any idea what was going on.
Remember when CW said that he and SW had “an emotional conversation”, and none of us believed that Mr. Gray Rock would *ever* do such a thing?
There *was* an emotional conversation, but it wasn’t with SW. It was with NK, and that was the content of that 111-minute mystery phone conversation. In which I suspect that NK was being honest with him about how she didn’t want to be a permanent second banana and so she was going to put herself back on the market.
You know how I’ve been saying that CW takes facts and weaves them into his narrative in the wrong places to make his narrative sound more genuine? I believe this is one of those.
Nichol was pressuring Chris to make a choice during the weeks SW was in NC. And about his finances, asking, “Is your lifestyle sustainable?”
She wanted tangible proof from him that his marriage was over, divorce complete, house being sold, and him moving into his own apartment so their relationship didn’t have to be hidden. Her ultimatum could have been during the 111 minute call. Pick me and prove it by moving out, or tell SW about us, or our relationship is over.
I can’t imagine dating someone who had a newborn with his ex along with 2 small children.
Maura, I read most of your thoughts hearing NK’s voice…
Great post.
Just a vote here: How many of you think that the detectives have a pretty good idea of what happened and are just playing catcher vs cobra with him?
If they have a pretty good idea what happened, is it a different idea from what they thought at first happened? If not then the DA shouldn’t have said it’s mostly truthful and produce so called evidence of the shadow.
I think, as with most times in LE, they know much more than they are letting on. They want HIM to tell them.
How stressful was the financial situation in your marriage? How often did you fight about money that summer? Why were you sending your daughters to private school again when your mortgage was already 3 months behind for the second time that year? The detectives did probe lightly here but Chris seemed to provide frustratingly vague answers. He asserted that Shan’ann was ‘an amazing saleswoman and made as much money as he did’ but continues to act unconcerned and nonchalant about the deep financial crisis they found themselves in. He asserts the lawsuit from the homeowners association was a simple mistake and that Shan’ann had been sending the monthly fee to the ‘wrong address for over a year’ (?). When a detective asks what happened to all that misdirected money, Chris replies casually that he ‘doesn’t know’. When asked what they spent their money on instead of paying the mortgage, he gives no details and uses vague terms like ‘kids, expenses, life’ The detectives question him on the need for him to call the school first thing that morning but again, there is a vague sputtering of an answer. I wish we had more details on the finances and the financial strain and how it contributed to this crime. Even the entire Thrive influence seems to be cloaked in mystery; we still don’t know exactly how much she did make and whether all those vacations were really ‘free’. ( I recently read they had a credit card in Bella ‘s name – could this possibly be true and why would a 4 yr old have a credit card? What company would even give a 4 yr old a credit card? )
He doesn’t sound like he has an IQ of 140 does he?
Lol Nick. If he had an IQ of 140 he would not have murdered his family but thought of some other way out of his marriage.
Intelligence doesn’t make one less criminal or diabolical, in fact it’s often the opposite:
http://www.vorply.com/society/list/smartest-serial-killers-of-all-time/
140? I missed that – wondering when it was done (how recently), what version was used and if it was part of a mental evaluation after the crime. If it was part of an evaluation, it would be very interesting to read the rest of the report. TBH, I would have guessed he would be on the low end of normal (IIRC about 90-100) unless he is on the autism spectrum. Total speculation on my part of course, but I would love to read that report.
Bear in mind it’s what he claims is his IQ. So much of the meat and potatoes of this crime isn’t about how clever it is, but the opposite, so I do think Watts overestimated just how clever he thought he was. I think the Rain Man moniker went to his head.
The polygraph test alone, and his resistance to getting a lawyer, reveal a naive dummy gambling big and losing big. The crime itself was just that too – a massive risk in which he backed himself with potentially a big reward waiting for him, financial and otherwise. But he wasn’t able to think through the downside let alone come up with a plausible explanation for where Shan’ann had gone and why she’d left her phone, car etc behind.
Watts claims it took 11 IQ tests to determine his intelligence [page 28 of the release report]:
https://crimerocket.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/fullscreen-capture-20190307-180203.jpg?w=676
I agree Nick. I think he definitely had some mechanical aptitude as is evidenced through his past jobs and performance. He definitely lacks emotional maturity. His card to NK was cringeworthy and sounded like a teenage boy. I think he learned a long time ago how to detach himself from conflict and never learned how to deal with emotions that might be hard. He didn’t seem to know how to act at all. Maybe he got the 140 number from one of those stupid FB type quizzes that gauges your intelligence they usually tell everyone they are geniuses while mining their personal data.
It’s not hard to lie on a credit application.
Yes there was one in her name….. scam.
Probably Shanann’s doing.
I guess I am pretty naive but I would think that a bank would look at the birth date and put it together that this is a child with no assets or job. Of course, I guess you are right – they could have lied about the birth date and other details. I am still just amazed someone would get a credit card in a 4 yr old’s name! This would just never cross my mind.
KerryA, unfortunately, there are people who do this.
Had the credit card been reported? A few years ago we got notice our son’s SSN and info could have been breached from our insurance company as strangers were doing exactly that taking out loans and credit cards in children’s names.
Could you direct me where they address the credit card? But yes parents also do this sometimes.
There are many kids issued a credit card. Dogs have gotten them too.
As long as they have a valid SSN. What part of the document addressed the credit card?
I’m sorry. It’s been awhile since I read about it.
Not sure where.
WHY on earth has the DA gone and said it’s “likely” CW is telling a truthful account of what happened and that there’s a surveillance video showing a likely shadow of one of the girls which is consistent with CW story.
Oh man!! WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?! That’s not justice. That’s not truth. That’s guessing and Assuming!
I thought crime and law enforcement and FBI meant truth and evidence and beyond reasonable doubt. It seems like now no one from any authority will bother getting to the bottom of what happened to Shanann and her baby and the baby girls. Such a travesty
-What do you think the shadows are then?
-What tools and experts do you think are at FBI’s disposal for interpreting images?
It could be anything? The dog? His own shadow being cast off from different light sources?
It’s incredibly unprofessional of the DA and LE to come out with this tiny statement now. Especially knowing that it’s probably risen from the pressure of 1000’s of ‘armchair detectives’ hassling the department. It’s just so backward! Even the DA used weak words such as it’s ‘likely’ and mostly true but then says he doesn’t think watts would ever tell the truth. Wtf?
Unless he can come out with absolutes after thorough investigations, I don’t think he should say anything at all. His job is to find the truth on crimes. How who what and where. It does no good giving half assed thoughts and summaries of ‘could be’ evidence when you can’t back up how you got to that summary. The public run with it, and then justice has not been done.
I mean the least the DA should have done is go back to the driveway and recreate the same scene at the same time of day and run the experiment. THEN he can comment either way. I have no doubt that the neighbours video was scrutinized by LE. And that the apparent shadow was not anything for them to play on given the multitude of evidence that goes directly against any theories from the shadows. I think CW became privy to this video and nutty everyone got over it, and he’s had 6 months in a tiny cell to come up with yet another new story that suits the image he so desperately wants to portray to the world. That he didn’t premeditate the murders.
But he did…
That was good, recreate the scene in the driveway, same time.
I think it was recasting either light. Not another person. Maybe he dropped something and bent down to retrieve it.
Shoddy work by all.
I wonder if, on August 13, 2019, they will try to recreate the events in the driveway. What time is sunrise in Colorado on this date? Can this have an effect on shadows? Is that why the auction has been postponed?
Good point, and it would certainly make sense to do that.
It’s not so much what Watts has said, it’s what he doesn’t say. He has made every attempt to steer the conversation away from premeditation. He has a ready answer for why he called Kodi on the 12th. He’s overtly nonchalant. I maintain the real truth is something Watts has not come to grips with. If he were to really explore the “why” of it it would all seem so pointless and empty and devoid of meaning, like a bottomless dark hole not unlike the dark hole he put his girls in and Shan’ann – dark, black, slick and oily with lies. The other Chris did it. The one he can’t look at.
One thing I heard from Chris about the NC trip that I hadn’t heard was that his dad had taken the entire week off work in anticipation of spending some quality time with his son. Instead, they went to the beach and took Shan’ann’s dad with them. A guy like Ronnie only has so much vacation time to take during the year – I can only imagine how much he was looking forward to it. If my spouse did that to me and to one of my parents – they don’t live forever, you know – I’d be furious. In this particular instance, I think Chris would have felt disappointed and angry that his time in NC was dictated and planned without his input. But, as he was conditioned to do, he didn’t discuss it with Shan’ann as far as we know. If this was a contributing factor in his motivations he obviously wouldn’t want his dad to know that. His mother has already been publicly shamed for “nutgate” as he’s been told by his parents. As for the premeditation, there are a couple of moments prior to the communication with Kodi where I believe he might have consciously started thinking about alternative plans other than divorce.
If you think of it in terms of a long fuse – couples keep score. Sometimes the score keeping begins soon after marriage. Little things like separate bank accounts, or “this is mine and this is yours”, arguments that aren’t forgotten, harboring ill will toward your mate, leaving a back door open just in case. He’s controlling, file that away. She bosses me around, file that away. Withhold affection. Keep secrets. Play little games in your mind like she’ll never guess what I’m really thinking or he always does what I tell him to do. Then one day you decide you’ve had enough. But you never told the other person what was irritating you so they get blind sided. That’s part of the little game you’re playing in your head too – they’ll never see it coming. Wipe them all out – it’s easier than having to deal with the fallout of having no mother, the crying, the fussing, the trying to explain. No more feeling depressed about it – time to actually do something about it. A divorce would be so messy, and emotional and costly! And now there is a new game to play – try and outfox the Agents and police. He might even come with a few more confessions as time goes by, isn’t it fun?
Ha, Sylvester, frustratingly fun. Good point, this is the new game he’s playing in prison – chess with the FBI. What’s their next move i wonder…
It will be interesting to see if they go back for more, or consider him credible and leave it alone. In any event they weren’t able to break through his facade,and I don’t think his story provided any closure whatsoever to the Rzucek’s – in fact probably made them feel so much worse. And if that was Chris’s goal then mission accomplished.
Until this interview the Rzucek’s had a wee bit of comfort in believing their daughter and grandchildren may have been asleep, unaware and it happened quickly. This is agonizing news to process for everyone who loved them. I’m somewhat surprised they were able to accept that Chris is even telling the truth – it would be the much harder path to take in their grief.
Maybe I have too much faith in the FBI, but I hold out hope that they will do everything in their power to verify this version of events. I hope they have re-examined any traffic light camera footage they have from all the stoplights along his route on hwy 52 out to Cervi. Hearing from DA Roarke that the FBI believes CW’s story isn’t convincing enough. If this was the version of events he told his own defense attorney’s 2 weeks after the murders, would the FBI be able to verify it by talking to his lawyers? I don’t know if attorney client privilege would prevent that or not.
How could those girls have slept in each other’s laps during their ride like he said? They were sitting in the backseat with their mother’s body, so there wasn’t anything normal about what was happening. Kids don’t wake up in the morning and then just doze off an hour later, especially if mommy is on the floorboard at their feet not moving or responding to them. So much of it sounds preposterous, I’d hope that Coder will feel compelled to go back for more.
Yes in law tensions can be very stressful. Both should have the opportunity to spend time with their parents. I also wonder if it was poor communication on Chris’s part as well. I remember watching her FB video that she took right before their San Diego trip talking about that trip and Summer plans. She talks about NC and Chris joining them later and going to the beach. I would think that booking a beach house at Myrtle Beach during high season is not something you do on the fly. It is also my understanding that when Chris went to his parent’s house to see them they had stood him up so his dad didn’t have time for him after the nut incident. That would match up with their past behavior of punishing Chris by denying him their presence.
Good to know, thanks. I hadn’t really thought of how far in advance she’d have to book, or just how expensive those cottages must be. Maybe Chris’ visit wasn’t the primary reason Ronnie took vacation that week. I hadn’t read anywhere that Ronnie stood him up that day, do you remember where you saw it? It seems so petty to do that to your adult son when it was the women in the family who were bickering about the frickin’ nuts.
JC I think it was in the original document dump I’m not sure if it was one of her texts or an interview with a friend but I remember it being mentioned. I am not sure if he tried to see them again or ended up convincing them to see him that day. I know one of her texts addressed him going to see his parents but that she and the girls weren’t. I would think since Chris knew the dates of the beach house ample time before going that he would relay to his parents when they could visit. It could also be Chris embellishing the narrative as well. There was definitely an interesting family dynamic there. If I find the reference I will let you know.
“when Chris went to his parent’s house to see them they had stood him up so his dad didn’t have time for him after the nut incident. That would match up with their past behavior of punishing Chris by denying him their presence.”
That narrative isn’t ringing any bells at all with me. What I recall from what I have reviewed in the evidence here is that, when CW went to NC to join his family, he went to visit his parents alone, without SW or the children. And that was all SW’s doing.
We have the video of CW with one of the girls on his shoulders while SW is videotaping and his parents are there, ignoring her, though CW is acknowledging her videotaping and interacting with her as they walk. They were all together in the same place.
LE made the statement about Watts making 3 trips to the work vehicle so wouldn’t they need some sort of proof beyond reasonable doubt to say that it was 3 trips for the 3 bodies. Now they’re saying they were alive, so have they explained that or admitted they made a statement that wasn’t based on fact?
I have always felt that the ‘ nut incident’ and fallout had a lot to do with Chris psychologically splitting from Shan’ann that summer. It was interesting in the last interview how he talked about it and then immediately linked it to his wedding and the fact his family did not attend. It seems he may have been keeping score in head and that he never really got over the split with his family around the wedding.
Great observations Kerry. A milestone like a wedding, and one’s parents being left out leaves a lifetime psychological scar. As you say nutgate resurrected those scars at a crucial time when Watts cared least about his family. It makes one wonder, if the nut incident didn’t happen, and his parents weren’t written off in July, would the psychological machinery still be in place to do what he did?
My parents did not attend my 2nd wedding, which would have presented them with the opportunity to meet their new in-law relatives. They chose to turn down that opportunity.
Thus, the two sides of the family never met. And still have not, after 27+ years of marriage (living in different states hours and hours of driving apart in the USA plays a big part). My parents were actively driving around the country in their RV at the time; they’d come to visit before and could easily have arranged to come. They did not. This created a rift – they were simply disconnected from our marriage. No vitriol; no animosity; just distance. Our relationships with the other side of the family were far stronger, and continue. My parents are both dead now; I’m estranged from my siblings (the legacy of child abuse and toxic Christianity). But we remain close with that other side of the family who attended our wedding.
There’s a lesson there, if anyone wants to see it. Skipping out on a child’s wedding is a very serious line that should only be crossed with the utmost consideration as a last resort, because it will have permanent repercussions.
Ralph can I republish this as a guest post? If so, let me know if you want me to mention your name or just refer to you as one of the TCRS commenters. These kind of authentic disclosures are very powerful and meaningful, and sheds real light on the human condition. Thanks for sharing 😉
Oh, hey, Nick. Yes, I’d be honored, of course. Commenter is fine, thanks!
I have a little additional information, if you’re interested. A friend of mine decided not to attend her son’s second wedding, because she discovered he’d stepped out on his wife when he started up with Wife #2 (after they’d both reassured her that nothing had gotten started up until after that marriage ended) and she hates cheating. Her relationship with Wife #2 was always strained – the two women didn’t have much of anything in common, and she found Wife #2 to be crass and unrefined, with an unpleasant personality, but appreciated that she seemed to make her son happy. The son and Wife #2 never had children together (Wife #2 brought a daughter to the marriage) and the marriage ended after 20 years after he left her for a much younger woman. By then, my friend and her son were fully estranged due to personality issues. Her boycotting their wedding certainly didn’t help anything… Principles don’t actually count for much when they’re used as a bludgeon to punish people.
I got the impression they weren’t left out but chose to skip it and not even tell him. That is rude from a regular guest but unimaginable for a parent to do. Very petty on their part and yes it left a lasting impression on him. If you meant left out by their own doing I apologize but it makes it sound like they were told not to come which is not how Chris told the story.
He went to visit his parents by himself. His mom called after nut incident and he told he was done, with Shanann.
Was referring to the wedding.
I agree violently with you here. Two waves matching at the peak cause a Tsunami and the “nutgate” incident happened exactly at the “wrongest” possible moment when he was at his crescendo with Kissinger. Shanann had no idea of what was happening behind the scenes, so she doubled down on that via Facebook. A bunch of “N”s happened at the same time: Nicole, nuts, Nico… Take out two or even one of them, and we would not be talking here.
One of the reasons Shan’ann had no idea what was happening with Watts was because she was in meltdown-grudge match mode for most the weeks she was away. So that was her focus and that’s what she was thinking about and concentrating on most of the time. Had she not been, she may not have given Watts as much rope as she did, which he used to hang himself, Kessinger and unfortunately her and the girls too.
Chris himself described it as Shan’Ann having “driven a dagger between him and his dad”. That’s unacceptable and unforgivable. That presented Chris with a choice he should never have been asked to make.
I only have one simple question: Did NK help, in ANY way, with any of this tragedy???
Until we have actual *evidence* to the contrary, the answer is NO.
CW presented himself as “available” to this woman, and she believed him. Why should we vilify and castigate her, when she simply accepted someone as he presented himself to her? Is she supposed to be a walking/talking lie detector machine? It’s really unfair to expect her to be.
She didn’t accept him as he presented himself to her. He presented himself as a flirtatious married with children coworker interested in a fling. All of their emails, her searches, his statements, and her behaviors support this. While it may have developed into more than either of them expected, the facts show she knew what she was getting into and likely decided she wanted those facts to change if she was going to continue in the relationship.
Moral question is different from a legal question. Even if we assume that she knowingly and actively preyed upon a married man, it does not implicate her of any legal wrongdoing. Even if she gradually poisoned his mind to the point of committing a crime, abetment is difficult to prove. Let’s wait and watch.
Duttdip, I didn’t reply in a moral or legal sense, was simply refuting the assertation of her claims that she “simply accepted someone as he presented himself to her.”
CW initially told NK that he and his wife were amicably divorcing. He’d kept the pregnancy information away from her – “pregnant” was one word CW did not mention in his “Sermon on the Porch”. It was only later, after they were already quite “involved”, that it became clear that this wasn’t the case.
15-20 mins straddling Shan’ann around the waist meant he would have been sitting directly on her bladder. No way a pregnant woman who needs to pee as soon as she wakes up could have a mans weight resting there for that long. I hope they go away and come back after analysis to ask more questions around his confession. I get that they were encouraging him to talk but so many things need challenging as outlined in all these posts. Just when you think you might get some answers you end up with even more questions.
“Bella was gonna start kindergarten…n-next Monday…and they-they’re just getting ready to start…”
Could this mean/prove that the girls died on Sunday?
Curious, no Seman was reported anywhere in autopsy on Shanann.
Chris might be on drugs in prison, maybe that’s why so calm…. interview.
Chris might go into some kind of population, with other inmates to play sports, etc.
My question is whether the Rzucek’s still claim any familial bond with CW as the detective claimed in the interview (to Chris’ seeming amazement and delight). They have taken what appear to be major statements to divorce him from Shan’ann and their children by burying them in graves marked in only her maiden name with no mention of Watts. I also wonder if the spelling of “Nico” is a very deliberate change. CW mentions in the interview wanting to name the baby Neko while Shan’ann preferred Nico; perhaps Niko, as the spelling was originally decided, was Shan’ann’s compromise on the name and her parents wouldn’t allow any concession to CW in the end?
Could it be possible he gave the dog oxycodone to sedate him while he
Committed the murders? Dogs sense so much and he probably wouldn’t want a barking dog raising attention…. just a thought.
Autopsy reports show none of that medicine in any of the deceased humans, correct?
Also- i don’t know if this was mentioned- when shan’ann typically came home from trips- would she check on the kids?
As a mother myself- the first thing i would do from a trip of any length is go to my kids- yes, even if they are light sleepers.
If he had killed them or planned on killing them and then waiting for her it would be quite risky.
Also it seems EXTRAORDINARILY UNLIKELY that a child of any age over 2 would not be extremly vocal about seeing their mother (whom they were quite close to) wrapped yp in a sheet- beneath their feet- smelling. There would be questions, tears, fear- it would be a shit show. Why would he tale that risk? Seems extremly unlikely? Did i miss the investigators asking any of this? Seems most incredulous.