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- Christopher Watts: What else do we know? [UPDATED] | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs
- Watts Sentencing: Live Coverage and Analysis [Updated throughout the day] | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs
- Crime News – November 2018 | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs
- The murder of the Watts children at CERVI 319 as Dramatized in FAMILY MAN, FAMILY MURDERER | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs
Shan’ann’s Blood Alcoholic Content was 0.128. She’d been drinking??
Her fully formed gallstone may have contributed to her not feeling well during her last MLM trip.
The DA explained that it is due to decomposition and the body breaking down.
The DA mentioned that. Said it was part of the decomposition process.
So completely terrible. The kids had two wack jobs for parents. Shannan was a hypochondriac, who was gonna turn her kids into the same. She was a nag and loved making Chris look like a fool. Along comes NK, (a pig in her own right) who rocked ol Christopher’s world! He tells his vindictive wife that he wants out. She tells him “you’ll never see the kids again” he flips, kills her and poor little Bella sees it. He kills both witnesses and the rest is history. Maybe some ppl just can only take so much. He’s a piece of crap but make no mistake, they would be alive if not for Shannan.
CW planned it, read it up. He didn’t flip.
Therefore your theory is not valid.
How dare you blame the victim?
Are you a parent? How would you have reacted in her situation?
She loved her kids more than he did, obviously!!
Or do you believe his lies, that she harmed the kids and then he did same to her?
Utter Rubbish!
“You’ll never see the kids again!” WHATEVER!!! in any case, who the hell trusts anything coming from Chris Watts? He in cold-heart and with much caluculation waited for her to return – Shanann did not stand a chance!
Chris probably told shannan that she’d “never see the kids again.”
I would put the blame on Chris! Not Shanann! If Chris had not had the affair, he would not have killed his family!
There is no sympathy for that psychopath period. No matter the circumstances he killed not 3 but 4 people including his unborn child. Think before you speak, I’m glad he will never be out of his jail cell. Hope he has a wonderful time rotting and thinking about what he’s done to his family
Simply stated, you are an ignorant human being, Badmouthing the vicitm like that when she can not defend herself. How do you or any of us know what her last words to Chris were? He has proven to be a pathalogical liar and nothing he has said before or after his conviction can be proven as truth. give me a break. Get a life and quit trashing innocent victims.
Seriously? 🤦♀️ no she was a good mom who looked after her kids! My son has many medical issues as well, doesn’t make me a hypochondriac ffs she isn’t here to defend herself maybe back off a bit
You are a “remarkable” person. Jeeze.
That’s a harsh indictment to a woman who can’t defend herself. He wanted out, didn’t want the baby., and took the cowards way. No one deserves what happened to those kids and their mother-you have issues.
Please, if he was worried about the kids, then why did he kill them as well. He is responsible for his own actions, many people live with worse and don’t kill anyone. And in his own words under his own free will he admitted he act it killed his kids twice before that was ever said. And his mistress tells him she wants to be the one to have his first boy prior to the murders and surprise after finding out she is having a boy , she is now dead. And even if he did not kill them “twice” so to speak, he killed the on in front of the other with no thoughts to their fear levels or anything but yet you put all the blame on another of the victims.
It’s completely obvious from videos that the wife was a nut job, self absorbed, controlling weirdo that undermined her husband constantly…..so leave her ass!! Chris Watts is a narcissistic cold blooded killer of children and their mother. And anyone on this thread acting as if the mother plays any part(or the mistress) for that matter…..well you are just as psychotic
I 100% agree with everything you said!
She was not drinking! Look up alcohol levels in postmortem state. Or look up the video of the DA talking about the autopsies. He said the blood alcohol is normal after you die. She was not drinking while pregnant!
I have a theory which could explain Shanann’s ethanol and alcohol levels. As a former forensic detective I don’t completely agree with the DA’s comment that it is normal. Perhaps it is safer that the majority public don’t know the facts. Chris worked at a petroleum manufacturing company. He would have had more than enough access to ethanol or similar alcohols. Inhaling ethanol fumes would make them all instant drunk and completely defenseless. I once witnessed where someone used Tequila in a hookah instead of water. The one person who took a few breaths almost immediately fainted. Chris only had one small scar on his body, consistent with this theory. Also ethanol in the oil would not seep into the spleen in a body in 3 days to produce a high level like that, besides most ethanol is extracted through many processes prior to any petroleum company dumping the waste oil. I honestly believe Chris smothered them all with ethanol soaked cloths. He is not only a monster, but also a coward, by quickly disabling his victims. I guess we would never know and it wouldn’t make any difference on his sentence.
Hi Mark
Good to have a former forensic detective around. Like you, I was suspicious about the DA’s assessment. I approached an expert to get his take on it, and was a little disappointed by his findings:
https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/17/thomas-molletts-forensic-report-on-shanann-watts-post-mortem-blood-alcohol-level/
Like you, I believe the children were sedated, and possibly Shan’ann as well. I’ve considered morphine [since Shan’ann was a lupus sufferer, and needed strong pain meds], but morphine should have come up in the autopsy.
Or carbon monoxide poisoning [something a former mechanic and oil worker would know about].
Ethanol makes sense, especially because it could be “disguised” in the chemicals themselves.
But from Mollett’s work, it seems the alcohol levels in Shan’ann’s body were normal. It would be good to hear your assessment of his assessment.
What do you think about the 8 inch thief hatch, and the narrowest section of Ceecee’s hips being 9.5 inches, according to the autopsy? Possible if the hips were gyrated slightly, titled vertically, the horizontal width could be reduced by an inch. Your thoughts?
Chris was plainly seen in the neighbor’s security video loading a red gas can into the back of his truck. After reading your response I’m wondering if this was filled with ethanol or some similar agent. It makes the crime even more heinous in my mind because it would have required a lot of thought concerning the logistics.
I was in Colorado in the area on vacation the week this happened last August and the whole thing is sickening and deeply troubling to me. I just don’t get it.
Mark your theory makes a lot of sense. I wondered what became of the gas can. Also this is awful but he said he had to raise the girls arms up to get them into the hatches of the oil tank. What about rigormortis? Terrifying to think he could have put them in the tanks still alive but incapacitated. If they were pliable makes me wonder if they were not deceased that long before he was able to shove them into the tanks. Also I agree much is still withhhed from the public. He was presented with evidence before the plea deal, and we don’t know the content of those conversations.
“he said he had to raise the girls arms up to get them into the hatches of the oil tank. What about rigormortis?”
Rigor mortis lasts 8-12 hours. If the girls were dead by ca. 5 PM the previous evening, as many of us believe, then by the time he was ready to pass them through the thief hatches, they’d be pliable again.
Sounds like a good theory except that Bella did fight for her life as the coroner explained by the hole in her frenulum, the biting of her tongue & insides of her cheeks. He said those were consistent with trying to flee while being smothered. CeCe did not have any marks & I attribute that to her age, not understanding what was happening & I’m sure she lost consciousness quickly as she had breathing problems. I believe she was probably sleeping when he smothered her. I also believe Shan’ann was also sleeping when the attack occurred which could explain her lack of putting up a fight. If someone begins to strangle you while you’re in a deep sleep and laying down you may never regain enough consciousness to fight back. The ethanol levels are perplexing though; even in decomposition they are rarely above .07. I’ve wondered if he made her a drink when she got home, a smoothie with some type of alcohol that you wouldn’t taste in it to knock her out because she didn’t drink. There’s plenty of liqueurs that are very well hidden in frozen shakes etc. My theory is that he had started to be nicer to her, as evidenced by her text to her friend Cassie the night before she left for the trip. Then he agreed to go to Aspen with her for the weekend following her death. She left him a note the morning she left for Arizona and it was very loving & positive. He’d let her snuggle him that morning. I think he was doing this so she would feel comfortable when she got home, and would be able to sleep. ( when they were arguing she couldn’t sleep & had been crying all night ) What happened when she got home nobody knows, but I do believe she felt comfortable enough to go online and shop. Then probably went to bed & I guarantee he was in their bed not in the basement & this made her happy. She probably snuggled up next to him & was able to fall asleep.
I believe the frenulum injury could be explained from the process of stuffing her head through the thief hatch post mortem – it was a tight squeeze with the larger child.
Also, CW was looking up dosages for oxycodone, a powerful pain medication that Shan’Ann had plenty of stockpiled around the house. The children were accustomed to regularly taking medication; it would have been very simple for CW to simply give them a couple extra pills to swallow while they were relaxing watching TV after their dinner, and once they were sedated, wrap a plastic bag around their heads. They’d quietly suffocate – no violent confrontation, very peaceful. Very CW.
I always wondered why she didn’t fight back, too. But think about it. If he straddled her chest, and pins her arms down with his knees, she would have been incapacitated. Her legs would have been free, but if he was high up on her chest I doubt she would have been able to even get him with her knees, they would not have reached him. I actually tried this with my husband. My husband is 6’2, weighs 190 lb. I am 5’7, I weigh 132 lbs.. .,,, I had my husband straddle my chest and pin my arms down and I’m telling you right now, I could not move. Even flailing my legs —they weren’t even reaching him. So I do see how Chris did this and ended up with no defensive injuries from her.
If you look at other cases where someone is strangled to death, the amount of defensive wounds, including bruises, is extensive. Meredith Kercher is a famous example. Here’s another:
https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2017-11-23-susan-rohde-sustained-too-many-injuries-to-hang-herself-pathologist/
as former sheriffs deputy, mid 70s, (When females allowed on patrol)…
I learned all about a Sleeper/Chokehold…hated that part of SO academy, but is a great way to gain upper-hand, control over a perp and render them unconscious with one thump of my forearm on their neck/carotid artery.,, you black out immediately!
I was VERY proud of my being able to take down the biggest man in my class. I was 5’9″ weighed 120 lbs, so was skinny….
I have NO doubt that CW did a choke-hold on his wife from behind or right side, rendering her unconscious while smothering her airway…she never woke up…is why she didn’t struggle or stop him.
He knew right where to “thump” her neck…her surgical site.
I actually do not believe that there was any sedation to the girls or his wife. If you read through the autopsies very well you will see that the oldest girl, Bella, actually bit her tongue several times and had many injuries in her mouth. Shanann had extensive injuries to her neck.
As far as the BAC goes, it had been over 100 hours from the estimated time of death to when the samples were taken at autopsy. Read Thomas Mollett’s forensic report https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/17/thomas-molletts-forensic-report-on-shanann-watts-post-mortem-blood-alcohol-level/
Mark, that is really interesting! Explains why Shan’ann didn’t fight back. Kind of comforting too if they were unconscious when murdered … they wouldn’t have died in fear and terror.
Chris stated that his wife smothered her children and im sure he’s lying but i was hoping to read somewhere here of proof that chris also smothered his kids. Maybe im not reading this correctly or i missed it but what proof does this autopsy shows that chris beyond a reasonable doubt killed his kids?
“what proof does this autopsy shows that chris beyond a reasonable doubt killed his kids?”
What information to that extent do you expect *an autopsy* to provide?? Do you think you’re asking for reasonable evidence that would be commonplace and easy to produce?
If Chris *hadn’t* killed them, would he have gone to so much trouble to hide the bodies?
Chris and or others..I tend to agree…Shan ann was imo…definitely disabled at some point…Bella maybe not..she fought hard.
This is an excellent theory and makes a TON of sense!!! This would explain how she didn’t fight!
Could be so because Shanann had no defensive wounds and he said she didn’t fight.
Makes sense since Shanann has zero marks indicating a struggle, I thought from the jump that she wasn’t even awake when he killed her. Cause if it was the way CW said she would have fought back. At least I would have.
The two girls, Bella and Celeste’s bodies also had same, was noted in autopsy reports is from decomp process.
I will say one thing CW did NOT do…at “least” he didn’t rape his baby girls…ha, like that makes him a good man…
Yo i bet that thrive shit gave her that gallstone
Gallstones form over a period of time, raised hormone levels in pregnancy contribute to them.
No, I don’t believe she was drinking at all, considering she was pregnant. Her body had been out in the warm Spring sun for 3 days, leaving the blood and fluids to ferment, if you will, which could have resulted in a false positive post mortem BAC. But considering she seemed to be an amazing mother, I highly doubt she was drinking. She also had Lupus, and was 15-16 weeks pregnant, which could have been the reason why she wasn’t feeling well.
Ella no tomaba ni la basura tampoco, lo dijo la nana de las bebés. Mucho menos que estaba enferma. Lo que ese animal hizo estuvo todo en su sano juicio, los borrachos dicen que hacen cosas indebidas por estar ebrios pero, este definitivamente es satanás.
THE GIRLS WERE NOT COMPLETELY DEAD when put into the oil tanks. Autopsy shows oil, water, and sludge in their lungs, which cannot happen when you are dead. Cyril Wect is an expert who always talks about how drowning victims have water in their lungs ONLY if they are alive during drowning and not completely dead !!!!!! Thus, the little girls may have been unconscious – but they were NOT COMPLETELY DEAD YET….and that is how oil got into their LUNGS !!!!!!!!!
No. It was a matter of how they were immersed in the oil. CeCe was face down – no oil inside her. Bella was face up, so oil had oozed into her stomach and lungs.
It is most likely that the girls were dead by 6 PM Sunday night already, which was why Chris couldn’t reschedule the murders as soon as he heard Shan’Ann’s flight would be delayed, thereby cutting dangerously into his cleanup time.
read befor comment on subject…it is well describe…decomposition did this
Bella was wearing “pink pajama-type top with images of hearts and butterflies.” Poor thing. Little Celeste, thankfully, seemed to have no idea what was happening to her.
Chris Watts destroyed three fully formed, perfect adults. He needed to be executed.
No, ONE fully-formed, perfect adult and TWO fully-formed, perfect BABIES.
Typo. I was writing in a passion. I meant three perfectly formed humans. It drives me batty to see little Cece kick her legs in joy in the videos and to know they were stopped forever. For nothing.
Believe me…even the worst of the worst, hardened criminals do NOT like baby killers….they WILL do to him what he did to his babies…just a matter of time one of those inmates having NOTHING to lose, lifetime sentences….CW is NOT going to live long once he’s let out of his isolated cage…Guards will make sure a door gets left open, backs turned…they HATE baby killers too…we all do.
dirty murderer! I cannot get over what he did. I don’t know why the Watts murders have affected me like this.
I tend to have the feeling ; with the way the justice system and penalties are enforced in the US ….that he is probably in solitary confinement for his own protection!! Asshole should have never been presented and damn plea deal.
Celeste’s stomach was empty. So that indicates perhaps that she and Bella were murdered around the same time as Shan’ann I’m guessing. No evidence of cake or undigested dinner. Based on the clothing they were found in, probably Chris pretended to be asleep. Once Shan’ann got in bed and settled to sleep, he then got on her and, like a snake, squeezed the life out of his prey. Then I think he went into the girls rooms.
Kaye, this sounds plausible. I’m having my doubts about an emotional conversation occurring that particular morning prior to Chris’s killing Shan’ann. Perhaps they had one via phone or text. Or perhaps Chris had one with himself by way of rationalizing killing his family, although I don’t think it was emotional.
I bet there was no conversation. He probably wanted it done quickly and in the dark so he wouldn’t have to see anyone’s faces, anything that might make him doubt what he is doing. I’m thinking the girls were killed after Shan’ann because he knew she would look in on them, perhaps kiss them, before turning to bed herself. I’m sure if he were pretending to sleep she would have been so tired she would have gone to sleep right away, thinking we’ll talk in the morning, things will be better tomorrow.
I agree. I didn’t see any evidence that Shan’ann tried to defend herself, probably because he sat on top of her. My husband and I wrestle and if he sits on my chest with my arms by my side, I can’t move. It kills me because it’s pretty clear they went to bed like normal and were awoken to find him killing them.
it’s pretty clear they went to bed like normal >>>How is it pretty clear?
Completely empty stomach contents doesn’t necessarily indicate they died when Shan’ann died.
@nickvdl Hi. Do you think CW could have strangled her from behind? Since it’s clear CW is a flagrant coward, I am finding it hard to imagine him having enough courage to have looked at her eye to eye while he was strangling her. Thoughts?
He stated in a letter to the reporter woman that he remembers her face streaking with mascara and blood filling her eyes. And that she looked at him as she died.
In the autopsy Shannan was found to be still wearing a bra. I don’t know about you, but I definitely don’t sleep in mine.
Good point! I’ve been on those late flight arrivals often. Exhausting and she was pregnant. And to come home to a cheating bum! I worry he may have had the girls dead and sprawled out waiting for her to come home and watched her reaction from the baby monitor. Like a scene from Friday the 13th. He resented how close they all were and was sadistic enough to hurt her. God I wish she had taken the girls and just got the heck out of there.
I’ve slept in my bra for 25 years since I got my first breast implants. I find it more comfortable & I’ve always been afraid of sagging. I do know a lot of women who do this also. She was pregnant some women have very sore breasts when pregnant and the bra adds support & comfort. Taking it off makes the breasts throb & feel more painful.
I’ve been sleeping in my bra during my pregnancy- because my chest hurts all the time and taking it off even to shower is extremely uncomfortable.
When you’re pregnant, your chest grows significantly and pretty rapidly- it’s completely understandable that she might have been wearing one to bed.
I slept in my bras with all four of my pregnancies. It’s actually not uncommon. The breast get sore , and large during pregnancy, and for me at least, it was more comfortable to have them supported and padded.
I have always slept with a bra on and I am 43 years old, always. I’m just not comfortable sleeping without it. But that’s me
When you’re pregnant you do, breasts get tender and the extra support helps.
I always slept in a bra when I was in my 20’s and 30’s. I was terrified gravity would wreck my boobs. I found nothing unusual with that part. My youngest daughter slept in a bra as well. I guess my vanity rubbed off on her. The Watts murders got to me also. In the interrogation CW was blaming Shan’nan for killing the girls, and in the next breath trying to protect NK. Infuriating!
It takes 4 – 5 hours for a stomach to empty after eating. If the children had cold pizza for tea at 7pm, that means they were still alive until at least 11pm.
And to think CW called a co-worker @ 5pm to tell him that he would be going directly to the oil battery site and told the co-worker he didn’t need to. CW was already working out his plan to annihilate his family around the time he was getting ready to make his daughters some dinner. Ugh. A monster!
I find it odd that Shan’ann was wearing a bra when found. As a woman, I never go to sleep with my bra on. I think he came up behind her as she was getting ready for bed, after her long trip, and he put her in a choke hold then. Or even creepier, but fitting the narcissist he is, asked her to lie down and talk to him, maybe even told her he was sorry and wanted to try and work things out and then pinned her down and strangled her. I take comfort in that, Bella and Cee Cee likely had no idea it was their dad doing that to them, but he would’ve wanted Shan’ann to know he was ending her life. Remember that Chris was sleeping in the basement at this time so they weren’t sharing a bed. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t have used his presence in the marital bed to induce her to get close to him and give him the opportunity.
@Kaye I’m thinking the girls were killed after Shan’ann because he knew she would look in on them, perhaps kiss them, before turning to bed herself.>>>When he murdered Shan’ann, how do you think he did it? And where do you think he did it?
Based on Shan’ann having no defensive wounds, just the marks on her neck, I think he waited for her in bed, then after he felt she was either asleep or fully relaxed he rolled over on top of her and pinned her down somehow and then gripped around her neck. She seemed to be in pajamas which indicates she got into bed, which sickly matches up with his “barely got into bed” remark, The sheets were stripped because they probably got pulled off anyway during the act.
Good work. So Chris Watts said she barely got into bed, and so…she barely got into bed? Do you think Shan’ann was the type of person to leave her suitcase downstairs and just go to bed? Not whether you or most people would or wouldn’t do that – do you think Shan’ann was the type of person to do that?
The sheets were off because he used the fitted sheet to wrap her body in because of its rounded corners, he said this to the investigators.
When people die, sudden or expected, contents of their bowels and bladder are expelled. I believe those stains were on the sheets and that’s why they were pulled off. Surprised he didn’t run them thru the washer. However, his zombie-murder persona wouldn’t let think that far ahead. Nor did any part of what’s left of a moral consciousness scream “what are you doing?!!! –while he killed them one after another. Even with Bella, no screaming brain said ,” this is your Bella!! stop, stop.” . like others, cannot wrap my brain around his behavior. I go on youtube and so many parents are killing their kids. What is going on??
It was already reported that Shannan evacuated her bowels when dying and that is why he took the sheet off, He told police that
@Nickvdl IMO I think he strangled her from behind and on their bed.
Behind yes, on the bed no.
@Nick – I think she was killed by a surprise carotid choke (blood choke) rendering her unconscious within 3-6 seconds, hence no defence injuries, and dead in 30 seconds at the most. I think she was killed in the basement, just by the bottom of the staircase, by the fridges and the area where they stored old rope.
I think she was then taken, with her children, out of the rear of the property for concealment.
I think she died in bed after being knocked unconscious using Mark’s ethanol method. That’s why the strangulation was gentle, not violent, as the hyoid was not broke, and there were no defensive wounds to her or him. She’s not going to carry her suitcase up the stairs because of her pregnant state, and she wasn’t feeling well. The kids died afterward, otherwise he would have to break bones due to rigor to get them through the hatch. Could Bella’s mouth injuries have occurred postmortem when he shoved her through the hatch? CW said he was not a monster because in his opinion he killed them humanely. These are just my opinions (based on zero knowledge).
@huey Please read today’s post where it reads…
“Lastly and not related to your book, I continuously read people stating that the only bruises on Shan’ann’s body were the on the right side of her neck. That’s inaccurate. Chris Watts attacked her from behind, his left hand around her throat and his right hand covering her mouth and nose. Shan’ann’s Autopsy Report states, “There is a linear array of variably sized, purple black circular defects which extend from the inferior aspect of the chin, along the jawline, up the left aspect of the face, towards the left temporal area”. He had to be gripping her face pretty damn hard to leave fingerprint bruises along the left side of her face. The attack was pure power and violence. If I’m interpreting the autopsy correctly he effectively smothered and strangled at the same time but I never see this mentioned anywhere”
I have a question. I believe the DA said there was no evidence of fibers related to the smothering of Bella and Celeste. When it was revealed yesterday that the children had been smothered, I assumed a pillow was used, especially since it would cover their faces and provide emotional distance for Chris while murdering his own children. My question is how do you smother someone with your bare hands—cover/press their nostrils and mouths? I guess since they’re children and small it’s possible. However, this method is especially brutal, sadistic, and intimate, as he he would see their dying eyes. Who and/or what are we dealing with here?
“…smother someone with your bare hands—cover/press their nostrils and mouths”
Cheryl: If Chris did that, he definitely has to die. We cannot have that thing on earth with us.
In reading about this case it would never occur to me to smother somebody in such a fashion. I had assumed all the way through that he had used a pillow. After reading the 2000 page discovery & the autopsy report & listening to the FBI agent talk about other cases I learned that smothering by manual force is done very frequently to children. It’s something so outside my wheelhouse that I didn’t even know it could me done. How do THESE people know? Have they watched something? Googled ways to suffocate children? Or do they just know? Poor Bella was smothered with extreme force to her face that it left bruising. I have to wonder if somehow she woke up and saw what happened to her Mommy. Her death was the only one categorized as violent by the coroner 🙁
I go back & forth wondering if he planned on killing the kids, or if Bella saw & then he had too. But then I think if he didn’t was he going to leave them at home alone all day? Would he have cleaned up Shannans stuff if he didn’t kill them? But he’d then be a full time father leaving him not much time to galavant with NK except when a babysitter came. Or after kids went to bed, and I’m sure she didn’t want to become an instant Mom! So yeah sigh! I guess he did want to get rid of them all, and do it all over again with her.
I think he killed the girls at the worksite
Supposedly he took them out of school and said they wouldn’t be coming back. He had a plan to kill them all, all along. Unless you’d take that as he was going on the run with them, which I highly doubt. Some people believe his story that Shannan killed the kids like he said. But the way he disposed of their bodies and took them out of school, I don’t believe that at all. There is supposed to be a black smear mark on one of her pillows, possibly from makeup she was wearing, indicating that she was crying. Part of the evidence that he put into the trash.
@Nick—hi, in answer to your question about the suitcase she might have been so exhausted and wanting to get to bed right away that she left it downstairs, figuring she would deal with it in the morning. It would be tiring to lug it upstairs and she might not have wanted to make any noise. I think Chris pretended to be asleep because I think he’s a coward and wouldn’t have wanted to interact with her. I’m sure he didn’t want any questions from her or to talk about anything. They probably already had an emotional conversation before she left for Phoenix and he had made up his mind to do what he did. Anyway, this is the scenario I would paint if I were the prosecutor in the case. It’s what seems to make sense, based on the info we recently learned.
So Shan’ann’s OCD personality stopped that night?
Remember it wasn’t just the suitcase downstairs, her purse was downstairs too.
How does pretending to be asleep and cowardice align with murder? You may say murder itself is cowardice, but if you’re the murderer, you’re taking a huge risk, and if you’re an introverted murderer, you’re being your version of brave by physically confronting and attacking someone. There is cowardice involved but there’s an easier way to attack and subdue someone than to wait for them to fall asleep. Take Jodi Arias – she lured him into a shower and made sure she was armed and he was naked, vulnerable and unsuspecting when she attacked him. Make sense?
There’s also a serious fundamental problem with your theory, which goes to the forensics. If she was murdered in bed, why isn’t there any evidence of that? Not a single drop of blood on the bed sheets, and she winged him – apparently – with her nails on his neck. There’s another case that does involve a murder by a husband on a bed, through manual strangulation, and they found small drops of his and her blood on the sheets, as well as traces of her feces elsewhere in the room. Once the body dies the lower digestive tract opens up. No sign of that either.
That is what is difficult; without a trial we have no way of knowing all the forensic evidence and what tests the state started to perform or did perform. Was there no evidence of feces on the girls’ beds either so maybe they were not killed in bed? If that’s the case I can’t figure where else they would have been at that time. The mark on his neck might have been from Bella; Shan’ann had really long nails. If Shan’ann tried to claw his neck I would think he would have cuts there. He did something to immobilize or pin down her arms. Otherwise I can’t imagine why she didn’t go for his eyes etc.
False nails like Shan’Ann was so fond of wearing don’t scratch skin as effectively as natural nails do – they aren’t as sharp.
OCD can be like gluten-sensitivities. They dissipate in inconvenient circumstances. If she was that tired, yes, Shannan could have left her suitcase and purse downstairs in her own home.
If the digestive tract opens up at death, where did Shannan, Bella and Celeste poop? Chris cleaned all that up so quickly and completely?
Do you think he ninja-attacked her the moment she entered the house?
“If the digestive tract opens up at death, where did Shannan, Bella and Celeste poop? Chris cleaned all that up so quickly and completely?”
IF the girls were sedated (with Shan’Ann’s leftover oxycodone) before suffocation, it would have been very easy to make sure they were both in diapers – CeCe was still wearing nighttime diapers at least, and these would have served for an incapacitated Bella – they didn’t need to be the right size, since she wouldn’t be moving around. With Shan’Ann, IF she was attacked and killed shortly after she arrived home, while still downstairs, she would have still been dressed – her underwear and pants would have caught it. Notice she was undressed when found. So while he would have possibly had more of a mess to clean up with Shan’Ann than with the girls, it was contained, unlike the mess of that horrid Patrick Frazee who killed Kelsey Berreth by braining her with a baseball bat.
Also, if memory serves, CW did at least one load of laundry on the night in question. He had a schedule and he was sticking to it. SW’s flight delay was bad news, but since he’d already gotten the girls out of the way, there was nothing left but to proceed with getting rid of SW – and he almost got away with it.
From what I can understand of the facts in this case- there were no scratches to Chris. Murdering someone through strangulation doesn’t take that long.
I’ve seen many people die in the hospital where I worked- not everyone poops when they die (and their stomachs were empty)- except the oil in the Angels stomach. For the sake that they did poop, you’re assuming he didn’t clean it up in the bed.
“Once the body dies the lower digestive tract opens up.” -nickvdl
No, it doesn’t. A person’s muscles relax upon death, including the sphincter. Not everyone poops when they die, in fact most do not. During decomposition, gasses cause stuff to come out but that’s a different matter. Don’t mislead people into believing there should be feces in the location of a murder.
Not everyone poops when they die, in fact most do not. > Most do not, really? I’d recite a few examples from case law but I don’t think you’re really here to discuss anything.
https://www.medicaldaily.com/what-forensic-scientist-doesnt-tell-you-7-postmortem-responses-dead-body-314404
Pee and Poo
While some muscles spontaneously contract after death — and though all muscles eventually tighten into rigor mortis — others are loosening their grip entirely. Meanwhile, the part of your brain that regulates involuntary functions is shutting down. Specifically, the region of your brain that controls the muscles that hold your sphincter closed becomes incapacitated following death. Just like those rare occasions where you laughed so hard you peed in your pants, you will pee and poop in the spontaneous relaxation of your muscles following death. In fact, it’s not just the muscles but also the gas produced inside your body following death that will cause peeing and pooping. There’s really not much to say about this, right? Death is simply not pretty, nor was it meant to be.
In the case of Lacey Peterson, fecal matter *was* found in the house.
This is from the transcript of the Larry King Live show covering Scott Peterson’s conviction in the death of his pregnant wife Lacey – that’s Dr. Henry Lee, a forensic scientist:
KING: If there were smothering, would there have been evidence?
LEE: Depends on — sometime we find saliva, large amount of saliva, nasal secretion, mixed with small amount of blood on the pillow. Also, we usually can find some urine, fecal material, body fluid on the bed sheet and the quilt. Don’t forget, she is pregnant. Late stage of pregnant. In theory, you should find some evidence, which did not find. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/12/lkl.01.html
There are more details about the Watts’ precarious – and declining – financial situation in the body of this article as well: https://shakedowntitle.com/tag/scott-peterson/
I remember reading as part of the Scott Peterson murder investigation that they found traces of fecal matter in the carpet (which had been cleaned) in a downstairs hallway, I think, but I just looked around and couldn’t find anything, so I must have mis-remembered. Never mind!
The carpet was cleaned, and laundry done in the Peterson case. No traces of fecal material found, but in the Rohde case there were fecal traces.
https://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news/rohde-court-told-of-faeces-in-spier-hotel-room-15629834
Fecal traces also missing in the Zahau case.
Thanks.
Actually I have a sad experience of watching both my mother and brother pass away in front of me. Neither of them passed any body fluids.
So what are you saying? Do you think she was murdered elsewhere? Subdued and buried alive perhaps?
She didn’t nick him in the neck, that mark was not from her nails. They found nothing of any importance under her fingernail scrapings. He was photographed head to toe upon booking & was found to have no offensive wounds on him anywhere. The coroner even said the way she was strangled is indicative of a person not putting up a fight. Usually when there’s a fight while strangulation is occurring the perpetrator uses so much force the hyoid bone is broken; shannans was not. In the 2000 page report that was released they pose the theory that she may have been asleep while attacked. Once you’re already unconscious from sleep & then start losing air from throttling it would make you very disoriented & hard to come to fully conscious state & fight back before losing total consciousness again.
@Nick I thought the bedsheets in the bedroom were soiled? I haven’t finished reading the Discovery yet (just at the freaky prison fan mail/hate mail) – but I haven’t read anything yet about any DNA testing of the sheets?
Before I forget – one glaring mistake in the Discovery by the CBI when they did the forensic search – they said they checked for traces of blood where the cadaver dogs had indicated, including the top of the basement stairs near the ‘mudroom’.
They obviously didn’t watch the K9 body cam footage!
For starters there was only ONE cadaver dog (the Lab) who indicated only TWO places in the house – the spot in the basement between the stairs and the heating system fan, – and by the rear sliding door!
The second dog was simply a tracker dog, not trained for cadavers but to track a missing person. This dog did not find any place of interest (both seemed to be keen on searching by the basement bed)
The second dog also had a housetraining mishap in the basement.
I took a lot of interest in the K9 footage as I had a SAR ‘Shore Rescue’ dog for 13 years (best ‘nose’ in Cornwall)
Addendum: – The cadaver dog wasaso very interested in the washing machine and his handler, Jayne, says quite clearly that her dog has scented death by the machine (check the K9 video, but watch the volume, the cadaver dog’s bark is quite shrill!
Jayne is an EXTREMELY experienced K9 handler – she can be seen in action in the Docu-Movie ‘Missing 411’.
I feel like maybe she did meet them. There is a text I think to chris. Saying she will be there with lollipops and other things. Of course we dont know what shes talking about. Just kind of odd. And if the girls mentioned a nikki shanann may just assume her friend. Just a thought
@nickdvl. what was the deal with the blue gloves next to the bed???
Shan’ann loved clothes, and also being away for work (product) she may have had a huge heavy as suitcase loaded up, and as much as she wanted it upstairs thought Chris was asleep and being exhausted, preggers etc. didn’t attempt it herself. He may have sprung himself on her in the bathroom, came in after her and turned the light off or something, being an easier/tiled place to clean up any traces?
Did she even go upstairs to sleep?
We know that she went to her office and attempted to order haircare products, and in the welfare check footage you can clearly see a large dark blanket on the sofa, – and two small pink chair beds by the side of the sofa.
Her Dad stated that Shanann would often sleep on the sofa when he stayed at the house, and again when she was in NC after Chris arrived.
I don’t think she ever went into the master bedroom that night.
Debbie do you have a link to that 411 Documentary please?
Maybe we can do a group letter and petition: dear Watts, what happened??!
Que horror!
Also, wasn’t her phone found in between couch cushions. This was filmed during the police officer’s body cam footage. I doubt she’d just leave her phone and stuff downstairs like that. I don’t know her daily habits, but i use mine as an alarm. Also, I read that the kids were very light sleepers. Her friend had to tiptoe around the place when she stayed over for fear of waking the kids up. That could explain what possibly happened to Bella if she woke up and was going to see what was going on.
Donald, the house has bedrooms upstairs and a central family room with a couch and TV in between the master and the girls’ bedrooms. The phone was found in the cushions of that upstairs couch, not the downstairs couch.
Thanks for making the reports public. There are no words . RIP Angels💔
@Eleni Let me put it this way – there is zero evidence that Shan’ann was upstairs. Also zero evidence that she was in bed. Unless you count her phone. Do you think her phone ended up where it was because that’s how and where it left her hand?
You can pooh-pooh OCD if it’s not you, but OCD especially for someone with a chronic disease tends to be quite significant. She even labelled food in her kitchen. Anyway, either you get it, or you don’t. You can argue till the cows come home and all you end up arguing is that she could be in any non-specific place in the house. But then what’s your scenario?
I wrote a book that tried to integrate information, not just throw the information in the air and shrug. In that sense when you learn her OCD was a significant factor, you ask – how significant. And then you test it in various scenarios. How was she with her phone? How was she about her children’s allergies? And so on.
You wrote a book blaming Shannan- seems to me you’re just throwing your assumptions around.
There are a lot of types online who get off on blaming victims for what others do.
I expect they also make youtube channels of women doing things wrong to say why they hate women, even if men usually do more of those things
If he killed her downstairs how would there have been no movement on main floor shortly after she got home. I believe he killed her while she was sleeping, would have been easy to trap her arms under covers. As far as the OCD I don’t believe she had it. The floors in the closets had a lot of junk on them, her nightstand drawer was a mess. Seemed to me like she kept everything clean that you could see. A person with OCD also wouldn’t have that much stuff on the bathroom vanity. My closets and nightstand is much cleaner than hers and I don’t have OCD. She said on one video her kitchen has to be very clean, I know people that have spotless kitchens but rest of house is a mess. The bra thing means nothing, my daughter is big busted as well and slept in her bra when she was pregnant because her breasts that were tender were less bothersome at night if she wore one
“As far as OCD I don’t believe she had it…” This shows how little insight you have into this case, and into who Shan’an was in particular.
I have no insight? Did you live with them? Have you interviewed anyone for your books? No, so you have same information that anyone else has. . Do you have any family that said she had OCD? I haven’t seen one statement from anyone who knew her well say she did. People with OCD have rituals. She was organized but that is not OCD, same as me.
Carol, I think you are absolutely spot on, and on all points too. Her office was described as unorganized and sort of messy, as were closets, drawers, and things out of sight. So it’s OCD when it comes to what people see, both house and “life” if you will…..but a suitcase at 2 am, 4 months pregnant, I could easily see her saying “nope” to carrying that suitcase upstairs. Info released has stated she had some suitcases still packed, in her bedroom, from the SC trip, and there were other things (like her purses being messy) that just keeps chipping away at true, almost disabling sort of OCD tendencies.
I have come to think of her “OCD” tendencies as a bit like the way she was around her kids. She wanted to be, and really thought she was, a great mom. And of course she loved her children, and she was a great mom. But I think she had some difficulty in “raising” and “tolerating” young children. I sense some disciplinary issues, and I’ve seen her being absolutely overwhelmed as to how to really effectively handle even the most basic of situations. She often plied them with food and treats and I just felt like she needed to set some boundaries. I’ve never personally had a child repeatedly behave as the girls did, and please—a disclaimer here…. I actually have been turned upside down by this murder, and through watching over 42 hours of video, have grown to love and admire Shannan! But it’s tough watching some of them, and at times I felt awful for all of them–and the girls clearly did not want to be on camera while Shannan clearly wanted them TO be on camera. Between the two preferences, a lot of interaction was visible. And I’ve also learned a LOT about her between videos, and every page of the 1,960 pages of documents released by authorities under Colorado statute. I don’t know why, but I have a deep need (would have never expected this) to discuss what happened, and I need to be honest with my observations. It DOES NOT make her a bad mother when I comment on what I saw and what I think. She was relatively YOUNG. And she clearly WANTED the best for them, and she was still learning. But there were some issues. I think despite her bravado, she had insecurities just like everyone else, with both herself, and her roles as wife and mother AND someone working in an MLM. PLEASE know, all of these words are helping me to work through an event that is really messing with my head.
She had the girls in daycare full time to the tune of $500 a week, spending $28k a year per official documents, and this HAD to be a financial strain. I consider it strange to have them there FT at their age, given the business she was in—seems like it could have been done “around” an at home schedule for the girls, IMO. She texted her GF talking about her being a single mom when she separated from Chris. That discussion included stating she couldn’t afford to live in Colorado as a single mom, AND she would have to immediately pull the girls out of school to save money. When the girls were not at daycare, and at home, they took very long naps, and also had a 6:30 pm bedtime, sleeping 630-6:30. In addition, it became clear that she used “bed” as a punishment. The girls were described as light sleepers, and I wonder if this was because in fact they were sleeping too much, because wow, that is a lot of sleep, even for their ages.
And about the **bra thing** (on or off, sleep or not), well this is a big deal to me, because I think it can be considered an indicator as to time of death, or at least, it can confirm she had the chance to get out of the clothes she came home in before she was attacked and killed. *** Wearing a bra to bed is in fact QUITE common with busty women**. Even more common with pregnant women. Straight up facts. A tee-shirt and undies is a Sleeping Uniform for many women, another fact.
I’m enjoying this site (first visit) and thanks for listening.
The trauma dogs noted hot spots in the basement. I wondered if there was a fight, Bella saw him strangle her mother and ran into the basement to hide from him. He then pursued and strangled her there. The cadaver dogs noted no presence of bodies in the basement however.
Why was her phone downstairs along with suitcase. She wouldn’t have gone to bed without her phone. Unless he threw it there and forgot to take it and planned on ridding of it. Then again she was dressed for bed.
@Karen. Chris said he forgot the phone. It was on an automatic answering thing. And then it was turned off. He couldn’t get into anyways so I dont know what the plan was gonna be after. Throw it away? I’m just saying if her friend had never come over.
@Karen – did she get dressed for bed, or did she simply take of her jeans, throw off her flip-flops and decide to settle down for a couple of hours sleep wearing the bra, panties and t-shirt that she arrived home in? The t-shirt she was found in looks very similar to the one she is seen wearing in the neighbours cctv footage of her arrival back home.
Chris said that she often went straight to bed without showering after a flight, saying that she’d shower and wash bedding to ‘rid it of the airport’ in the morning.
I think that’s what she did (she’d had an extra 3 hours of ‘airport’ to be rid of!) – but I don’t think she ever went upstairs, not even to check on the girls. It was the early hours of the morning, she was pregnant, fed up with airport holdups and storms, and tired. Not a chance she would have run the risk of waking up the children by going into their rooms – she knew they’d be fine as she’d often said Chris was a good Dad.
She had everything she needed on the ground floor – kitchen for food and drink, office to make haircare purchases, bathroom and toilet and a big sofa with a huge blanket left on it as shown in the initial welfare check police body-cam footage.
It wouldn’t have mattered about sleeping in the same bra and panties as she’d travelled in – she was going to be waking up at 4am when Chris woke as she’d asked him to wake her – and the hair care product purchase attempt was around 2am, so what would 2 more hours mean? 2 hours isn’t ‘going to bed’ or ‘going to sleep’. That’s a ‘power-nap’ – another thing MLM folk are good at.
(Oh and the bra with pregnant women – 100% The T and underwear sleep outfit? 100% yes again)
@Kim cadaver dogs don’t just detect bodies – they scent death, trauma sites, bodily fluids relating to death, and sites where arguments have taken place (they scent the adrenaline-type hormones released
through the skin in heated arguments – which are undetectable to the human nose in the same way attraction pheromones are undetectable to our noses 🙂 )
Remember Nickol’s son found her cell phone in-between the cushions of the upstairs couch.
I love that guy. He knew immediately Watts was guilty as well as the neighbor viewing the camera.
He was all over the house. Kinda odd. On the police cams you can just see hi. Exiting rooms. Like 1 in the kitchen by her purse. I am not saying he touched the purse. I can’t believe the police let them stay in there. They should have been talked to later. I did hear shananns mom say let them in her daughter’s house. But legally it was in Chris’s name. Which is odd to me again. Considering the size of shananns house before they moved there. Where was all the money from that house? And the life insurance policies out on the 3 girls, not sure Nico yet, was not very much at all.
I don’t think enough people are looking at the theory that Chris had flipped a switch with her in the days leading to her death. From their text messages & hers to friends you can tell he was trying to make her believe they had a chance & things were getting better. It was all a complete lie. So what Was his motivation for that? I believe it was to make her feel more at ease, able to sleep instead of up all night crying. She texted him the morning she left for Arizona thanking him for letting her hold him that morning. She was calling him honey, and being all lovey dovey in her messages to him all weekend. The only thing that could have screwed with this is that $69 charge to the Lazy Dog. Which she combed over the menu trying to come up with that amount for one person. She asked him to keep the receipt for taxes. I think she was going to do what most of us who suspect our man of cheating would do, see who the server was, and go to the restaurant with a pic of Chris & ask who he was in there with. Unfortunately she never got the chance. He knew this too, which is why he was so brazen using the card that weekend. But yeah I really think he was being nicer to her to assure she had her guard down when he murdered her; which was when she was sleeping, on the sofa upstairs on her phone or laptop, or god forbid he initiated some kind of intimacy that turned into her death.
@Nick, regarding OCD. Was Shanann ever clinically diagnosed with OCD by a physician or a psychiatrist? I know that OCD was mentioned on several instances in the Discovery by those who knew her, but do they have the qualifications to make that diagnosis?
In this day and age, OCD has become a replacement word for ritualistic behaviour and personal idiosyncrasies.
It may interest people to see how MLM companies such as Thrive, train their customers and promoters in ‘Time and Management’ and Organisational skills, both of which can be classified as ‘OCD’ behaviours to an untrained eye.
Several life experiences may also have contributed to and promoted OCD-like behaviours in Shanann too – the loss of financial control during bankruptcy, divorce, car accident, illness etc – all contribute to a person seeking the need for regaining control of their life – which can manifest as ‘a place for everything and everything in its place’ behaviours. That does not necessarily equate to being a psychiatric disorder, just personal empowerment.
I’ve been reading this whole thread and as I always respect other ppls’ views and opinions as much as I can, there is one contributor to this conversation that thinks they know everything – sigh. Why does there always gotta be one of those? And I doubt this person is a doctor who can just diagnose ppl he doesn’t know either. Hey, I appreciate ppls’ input but to act all high and mighty and be disrespectful of others by trying to make them look and feel like idiots…I don’t care how much you know or how smart you are. If you can’t respect others in their opinions and input, you’re definitely not intelligent. Anyways, interesting theories guys…thanks! As for the one person I’m referring to – I think ignoring them is pretty much a good idea (:
I’m not a “contributor” to this conversation. I own this site, and have posted hundreds of blogs, and written 4 books on the Watts case. You get to know the people involved in a criminal investigation pretty well after writing 4 x 30 000+ word narratives. I don’t think I know everything, but I do know more about this case than most.
In terms of your comments about “respect”, you clearly have no respect for my work. That’s fine, but since that’s the case, it’s better that you head elsewhere where you’ll feel more comfortable.
For more information on having conversations at this site:
https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/21/true-crime-rocket-science-how-to-have-conversations-on-this-site-and-how-not-to/
Rude person. Nick Van Der Leek is the owner of this site and you are invited to comment, which is a privilege and we should be grateful. He has an incredible amount of knowledge and has a lot of experience being an investigative reporter and author of many blogs and books. You should apologise to him actually for your rude remarks in your comment.
Did you mention in your book that Shannan thought her marriage was wonderful and things started changing around the time your Hero Chris Watts started having an affair? And did you mention that the 6 weeks Shannan was in NC with her girls that your Hero Chris Watts was enjoying 6 weeks of being single with his girlfriend, and that was the turning point in their marriage?
Chris Watts isn’t my hero. I did mention that Shan’ann was still in love with him and wanted a child with, and wanted to work on their marriage right up until the moment of her death. One of the unknowns in this case is why Watts did what he did. Folks seem to think wanting to know why means supporting Watts or blaming his wife. Wanting to know why is simply that – wanting to know why. At the end of the day there are no good reasons to commit murder, especially of one’s own flesh and blood, but there may be valuable lessons to learn from figuring out how this could have happened. Judging any of the characters in this story as either all good or all bad doesn’t help us figure out what really happened.
That sounds very very snarky. I am very new to this case, only a couple of months ago, end of November 2020 to be precise. I have watched/listened to a lot of Nick’s videos and am now working my way through his books, and I can honestly say that he is impartial and simply digs deep into the why of the case. He is very thorough, very professional, analyses and peels back all the layers. His integrity shows through all the time.
Nick, have any of her docs said she had clinical OCD? You see any documents with that diagnosis? My opinion, when Nicole Atkinson said Shan’ann was OCD, I think she was using the term loosely, as a description, not a diagnosed disorder. Just asking a question.
Why was there oil in Bella’s stomach?
Because she was submerged in oil for four days.
There was no oil in Ceces stomach. From what I understand it’s not possible to swallow fluids once you’re dead. Meaning there should be no oil in her stomach just like cece.
Bella’s stomach contained 75 milliliters of “green-black fluid,” the report states, which was most likely from the oil tank she was placed inside. http://www.timescall.com/ci_32281483/autopsy-reports-show-shanann-watts-daughters-were-asphyxiated
But Celeste didn’t have oil her stomach. This guy had some sort of mental problem. I was married to someone, super attentive dad, husband. Everyone tho he was great guy. After 2nd child, changed. Told everyone I was bipolar, that we were divorced, even took me to one of his counseling sessions to prove I was the one with the problem. Thankfully that psych warned me I should take the children somewhere to be safe. I did. He eventually disappeared for long time, gave me house. He went from great dad to not wanting anything to do with them, me or any responsibilities. Everyone did think I was the nutty one by what he said cause he was a great guy to them. He snapped and I was terrified of him. Like someone took over his body. So weird
Do you think that maybe she was actually just unconscious? Chris thought that she was dead? And dropped her in alive? I also think the MLM biz attracts people that are lost, and need to be directed and consumed by something. I was in one temporarily an Acai drink, it really tried to make you ocd about $ and prestige attaining the unattainable honestly. This put undo pressure on the marriage and Chris being the douche bag he is, it was too much pressure to perform I beleive. He also is the male submissive in F/m relationships. Same with NK.
Now i fully beleive NK was in on plan, her idea to put bodies in tanks to help disolve them. She was an environmental science person. He was a mechanic. Not as bright. I also have seen that neighbors vid of the loading of truck & see a female in video helping him load up , and even a small luve figure of a child. I am shocked shes not been charged too. Amy thoughts on her? Thanks!
I have read through this entire post and this is the one question that I don’t think is getting enough attention. Bella has oil in her stomach but Celeste doesn’t.
I am in Australia and I came across this story by accident and I am just horrified.
If the oil got into her stomach by being submerged in the tank then shouldnt CeCe have oil in her system too. It just seems to me that Bella would actually have had to swallow the oil to get it into her stomach.
I know it is morbid but I do hope that CW gets his just desserts in jail and those other inmates show him some of the terror that his beautiful girls would have experienced in the last moments of their life.
Regarding oil in the stomach, just a thought, but wasn’t Bella face up and CeCe face down when removed from the tanks? Maybe body positioning and gravity?
I would say the asshole probably turned them over or put the comforter over their faces and did it that way. It takes 2-4 min for a person to die from smothering or strangulation. This sick bastard should have done everyone a favor and took his own life. But, wait a minute, he is that selfish and only thinks of himself, and he is too much of a coward. He really thought he could get away with this? Makes me so sick. His mom I think knew about it prior. Because when he called her, he said, “mom, they are searching the house.” Why would he say that to her if she did not have prior knowledge? Just a suggestion. Also, the fact that he did not want her to come to Colorado with his dad so that maybe she would not be questioned? She also could not stand Shannan. They did not even attend the wedding and barely knew their grandchildren from what I gathered. They were invited by Shannan’s family to attend the funerals and did not even show. This whole thing is terrible. Not sure if it is true, but I heard that the GF (Nicole) and his parents are both doing book deals! If this is true, what a sad sad world we live in for the love of money is the root of all evil. That is what this whole thing boils down to, Chris not wanting a divorce for the simple fact of having to pay child support on 3 kids. So if his parents are doing interviews and book deals, he gets it honest I reckon.
~KSmallz
Was the examiner not able to determine the order in which Shan’ann and the girls were killed? I see it is listed as “pronounced” and no estimates of time for cause of death? Unless I missed it? Thanks!
Correct. Time of death for all three victims is unknown. Ditto who died first and last.
Dont jump on me but…hear me bnb ot, I believe Chris. He continuously maintained throughout the entire interrogation that he would never hurt those kids. He added Shannan in as an after thought, “or Shannan…or my wife”
I also believe he had that conversation in the morning because I don’t know many women that sleep in their bras. (He left the house as the sun was coming up…more on this below). I do believe that she may have been the one who smothered the children because she was so controlling, according to friends and family, that she didn’t want another woman around her kids. If he did it he would have killed in the same manner of death which would have been strangulation not smothering. Smothering is albeit horrific, a more a gentle or approach that a mother may take. I dont believe this was planned because everyone says that it’s ridiculous that he buried them at his place of employment. I think His story is believable. I think he snapped, pulled her off of Cece punched her in the face to knock her out and then strangled her with one hand. Hence, no struggle, no stretches. If you look at the autopsy report she has purple round spots on 1 side of her face from the chin to the temple which could be his knuckles from a punch as well as a 1 handed strangulation. Then I think he panicked and was scared and didn’t know what to do. Had he planned this out, he would have killed them earlier, left in the middle of the night, in the dark, to dispose of the bodies…not as the sun was coming up as seen in the tape. I also believe he would have thought out a better place to bury them. Colorado is very rural.
Jami – I have 1 question for you. If you believe that Chris didn’t kill his daughters, then why on earth did he dump their bodies in oil tanks like they were trash? On top of that, he had to forcibly PUSH Bella down into the oil tank, because she was larger than the 8 inch diameter oil tank hole to fit through… please answer why?
Shannan would choke the like out of Watts before she hurt her kids.
I know plenty of women who wear their bras to sleep, myself included. When you are larger or they are tender, especially when pregnant, it is easier to sleep in them. I wouldn’t throw that out the window. Also just because she was strangled and they were suffocated doesn’t mean dirt. Usually when suffocation happens, its not only quiet but you don’t see the victims face, while strangulation you see it all. He may not of been able to face their killings but if he was distant, cold, towards her, like the reports say, he wouldn’t of had a problem killing her by strangulation if he was emotionally distant.
Also she seemed to have every intention to work things out while he was having an affair and according to him getting divorced. That alone speaks volumes how they were approaching their relationship.
100% agree. I wore my bra at night sometimes as well while pregnant because they become larger, heavier and more tender. Plenty of women do.
Jami, doesn’t make sense. If CW is the type of father that would never hurt his girls, then his behavior after pulling Shannan off CeCe would be to call 911, try CPR ( he had classes at work) When non murderous parents are confronted with the loss or potential loss of their children they get desperate. Talk to first reponders or health care workers. Listen to the cop who interrogated him after he tells that stupid story. Parents reach for any hope, even if the child is blue, even if rigor has set in, they’re desperate and people who are not emotionally involved as them, professionals,have to tell them it’s too late. parents are hardly ever at the ones to determine that nothing can be done to save their children. Watts was no genius, by saying he saw her kill CeCe and giving such a short timeframe for their killings, he left it wide open that they could have been saved had he called 911 or administered CPR instead of murdering his pregnant wife. Also, in the 2-4 minutes it took him to kill Shannan, this father who would never hurt his kids, never looked at the visible baby bump and thought “ I’m killing the baby too, I need to stop”. There’s just too much, including motive, he wanted a life with Nicole with no disturbances. Also, he usually goes to the office in the morning and then goes out to the sites but the night before he called and told a coworker he was going to the site. Not the best proof, but it adds to the chance there was planning. Lastly, he lies constantly to the police, why is this self serving story all of the sudden believable? Because he said he’d never hurt his girls? He also said he didn’t know where they were and he thought they were coming back.
He’s full of crap. All he can do is lie.
Or perhaps he left when the sun was coming up because that’s when he usually left for work. Knowing that his neighbor had a camera, he has a reason to leave at that time. Whereas if he left at let’s say 3 am. would that be a “normal time for Chris to leave for work”? He knew that he would be at those oil tanks by himself that morning. Why else would he go there with 3 bodies? He didn’t attempt to revive the children or call for help. Even if he raged and killed Shannon because she killed her girls, I would much rather be guilty for killing Shannon because she killed my babies then be a monster guilty of killing my daughters so I would have called for help so the cops could do their job and get the evidence to back up my story. Chris is a monster. No other way to put it. He cared more about his 2 month relationship with that home wrecker then the 6 years he spent with his wife and the lives of his children. Chris only saw things with one lense. Chris is dead inside. You can see it in his eyes. There is no soul in his eyes.
I agree with you Jessica
He is a monster. He doesn’t have a soul!!!!!
I also believe in my heart that Shannan did not hurt her babies
She also wanted to make her marriage work.
I hope he gets what he deserves while he is in prison!!!!!!
Read my above post. All these people do is lie. I’m wondering if he had bipolar. I lived with one. They are good at lying and work very hard at appearing normal and very important to be liked. One thing that was truthful that came out of NKs mouth was that he lied about everything. These people can’t tell the truth about anything. Very hard to think a dad can do that but my ex just turned, didn’t want any of his family anymore and still has very little contact for the past 8 years. He just switched.
Everything you say can & has been disputed. Of course he kept saying he’d never hurt those kids, he was lying, trying to save his ass. He said he didn’t hurt Shannan just as much, I’ve read all the transcripts. The lie detector test question focused solely on her, didn’t even mention the kids. He failed all 3 questions. Prior to taking the test he was asked a bunch of questions one of them was name some ways you could make somebody disappear. He kind of giggled & said like you mean like on TV like a magician. The detective said not really. He said kidnap somebody, murder somebody. They asked him ways to murder somebody & he said shoot someone, hit them with a club, stab them, run them over, throw them off a cliff, a bunch of other weird ways but steering wide of strangling. Now that’s one of the main ways that most lay people think of first but he was coming up with these weird ways but distancing himself from strangling. The FBI agents had already profiled that the wife had been strangled because they’d been through the house with luminol & found no blood splatter, and because children were involved also believed smothering was involved. It’s typical that children be smothered as opposed to stabbed etc. So the agent says what about strangling? & he says ah um like yeah there’s that too & sort of skips right over it. His aversion to it is so blatant, and it’s obvious why. There are FBI profilers who are trained at reading people by what they don’t say & in Chris’s case sometimes he says too much.
Shannan did not have any marks on her face indicative of a punch, slap, or anything at all. Chris was photographed head to toe & didn’t have one mark on his body consistent with somebody fighting for their life from being strangled. When asked if they were going to find any marks on her during his confession he said “ I don’t think so “ and when asked why he said it was because she didn’t fight back because “ I was in such a rage “ Tell me how that makes any sense at all? First off she was supposed to have been in a rage enough to have been snuffing the life out of her daughter & then when she sees the object of her rage that caused this who then starts to fight with her & strangle her she doesn’t dig her nails into him anywhere? Not one place on his body? Not on his hands around her throat? ( oh & yes there were handprints in both sides of her neck according to autopsy ) on his arms? Face? Back? She didn’t try to bite him? Kick him? She just laid there still because he was in such a rage? That goes against every human primal instinct we have, it just wouldn’t happen. The same instinct that we as parents have to call somebody for help when our children our hurt. Even if they appear to be dead or as the agent in this case said decapitated you call & plead for someway to help fix them. First off let’s not forget it was only after Chris failed the polygraph & then they said it’s time to come clean & Chris first said “ I had an affair, I’ve been cheating on my wife, so I hurt her emotionally that’s why it’s saying I lied. Because you asked if I hurt her and I said no but I hurt her emotionally “ the agents said they already knew about Nikki which took Chris by surprise, he then realizes she’s talked to the police. They say the questions had nothing to do with infidelity so it doesn’t matter whether or not he had an affair. They then start putting the idea in his head what happened, did one of the kids die & Shannan killed the other one & herself? Did you have to cover something up for Shannan? He was adamant that no no nothing like that happened but the female agent is sympathetic & is using a technic which is to put the blame on another person & make him feel less at fault. She says did Shannan do something that made you do something? The male agent says did Shannan do one child & you the other? Then he asks to talk to his dad. In his story he goes downstairs & hears “ commotion “ goes into the bedroom & sees Bella on her bed with covers off & then Shannan on top of CeCe. He “ runs “ into Ceces room & “ walks “ up to Shannan. The agents stressed the words ran & walked because they were inconsistent & made no sense. Also in his re-enactment they also didn’t add up. He pushes her off CeCe and strangles her with both hands ( he demonstrates )
He’s asked whether Shannan was strangling CeCe or smothering her, at first he says strangling because this is the only thing that makes his story believable but afterwards he knows they’ll be no marks so he says he’s not sure. He says he never saw what happened to Bella because he was downstairs. He’s asked what happened after Shannan was dead he says he carried her to their room and put her back into bed. He has to be asked if he EVER went to look at Bella and see what condition she was in. Now remember this would be AFTER strangling Shannan carrying her to their room & putting her in bed, so at least 5 minutes and since it would have taken about 4 minutes for CeCe to die 9 minutes had passed supposedly since Shannan had been in her room.
He says with a halphazard yeah she was like for sure gone, she was blue, and no beats, no breaths, nothing. Isn’t it coincidental that Chris saw her on top of CeCe & when he got into the room it was at the exact moment that CeCe died!!!! Cuz if she’d already died she would have not been engaged in the act of strangling her like he said. So when he pulls her off there’s not one last gasping breath, she dies at that exact moment and there’s nothing Chris can do but kill Shannan!!!! What are the odds???? A trillion to bullshit that’s what they are!!! I wrote a novel here but I can dispute any theory you have with common sense, and irrefutable evidence! You know there’s plenty of that right? Have you read the 2000 page discovery?
I have to point out that Shanann DID have marks on her face – there was a line of small circular bruises running from beneath her chin and up the left side of her face towards her temple. It’s in the autopsy x
@Lisa – “if she’d already died she would have not been engaged in the act of strangling her like he said.” YES! That got me too – it sounded more like Shanann was trying to do CPR if she was already blue!
If we can believe his scenario, that also sounds like Shannn wasn’t trying to kill her daughter like Chris thought, – which meant neither of them killed her – which leaves someone who must have entered the home by using an access code that wouldn’t trip the alarm … and I wonder who that might be ((cough*mistress*cough)) … ‘if’ Chris’s scenario is correct of course!
I would like to read the discovery how do I find it?
Is there any way you can send it to my email please.
@Carol: OCD appears at least 5 times in the Discovery Documents.
1. Meacham [who knew Shan’ann from school] described Shan’aan as “OCD” in the way the household operated. Page 453
2. Shan’ann is very “OCD” [McKenna Lindstrom, the babysitter]. Page 535
3. Jeremy Lindstrom…wondered if Shan’ann’s OCD and honey-do lists had gotten to Chris. Page 463
4. She is OCD and very ritualistic in nature. – Cassie Rosenberg Page 626
5. Shan’ann is very OCD about organization and planned the entire wedding. – Chris Watts. Page 582
6. Nickole Atkinson on ABC: “Shan’ann was very OCD…”
https://youtu.be/U8fe6Ckeh5A?t=210
If you’re not OCD, it doesn’t mean Shan’ann wasn’t. You’re not Shan’ann Watts.
she wasn’t OCD her home was messy
Yes, Posted Youtube videos shows that her office was messy.
You’re obviously trolling! The woman’s home was spotless & there was a place for everything & everything was labeled! Her clothes were even coordinated by colour in the closet. She had a separate closest for her shoes & purses. The basement had everything in plastic bins all labeled & neatly stacked. What she considered the kids making a mess Ha! She should have seen my house when my kids were little. Her house was immaculate, I envy that she was able to keep everything like that.
@Lisa – oh hell, if your description is an accurate one for a diagnosis of OCD, then I reckon I have it too! Or it might be that ‘a place for everything and everything in its place’ is a good way for me to manage time – being able to grab what I need when I need it without having to ‘faff’ around looking for it. 😉 x
I’ve said this before. Chris was ocd also. He vacuumed twice a day. He organized the bins in the basement. They were out of town and it was still spotless. Even the few days shannan was gone. All but her office. And honestly I’m sure he had a lot of time on his hands to do stuff. She was always busy. He had only a few friends. They didn’t do date nights. I am by no means defending him. Or putting her down. It could be all the thrive he was taking. Scares me honestly
As someone who has OCD I would appreciate if everyone commenting here would look up the mental condition. It has NOTHING to do with being organized, clean, or a neat freak. That is simply a common misconception/stereotype that is very harmful and untrue. It is a condition that causes you to have irrational and uncontrolled thoughts, and the only way to make the thoughts stop, is to perform a “ritual.”
For example, someone with OCD could have the thought that if they don’t touch a doorknob a certain number of times an exact way, they will get a disease.
Here is what the International OCD Foundation says
MYTH: OCD IS JUST ABOUT HAND-WASHING, CLEANING, AND BEING NEAT.
FACT:
Triggers related to cleanliness and symptoms related to washing make up only a small part of the range
of OCD triggers and symptoms. People with OCD can have obsessions related to a wide variety of things, including losing control, hurting others, unwanted sexual thoughts, and many more. Similarly, the anxiety caused by these obsessions can be lessened by different compulsions, such as “checking” (e.g., re-checking door locks, repeatedly making sure the oven is off), “repeating” (e.g., doing the same action or ritual over and over to be sure it was done “correctly”), and “counting” (e.g., doing things in certain numbers, counting items to certain numbers).
Please have respect for people who suffer with the condition, and research it before you comment about it. Everyone on here who has mentioned ocd has an opinion formed by stereotypes they’ve heard.
I’ve linked an article below for everyone to read about how harmful perpetuating this lie is.
https://letsqueerthingsup.com/2018/05/12/i-didnt-know-i-had-ocd-heres-why-the-stereotypes-are-so-harmful/
She wasn’t OCD, and even if she was, what does it matter? He still murdered a sick pregnant wife and two innocent children
Stranglehold Theory.
A CHOKEHOLD usually involves cutting off the air supply, (air choke or tracheal choke) a STRANGLEHOLD involves cutting off the blood supply. (blood chokes, carotid restraints or sleeper holds)
Chokeholds and Strangleholds are used in martial arts, combat sports, self-defence, law enforcement and in military hand to hand combat applications. Air chokes have been associated with fractures of the larynx or hyoid bone and are considered less safe than blood chokes in these applications.
Strangleholds require little physical strength.
Blood Alcohol.
Mechanical compression with blood vessels in the neck (as in a Stranglehold) causes a reduction in oxygenation of the brain, leading to cerebral hypoxia/ischaemia, anaerobic metabolism, and acidaemia/acidosis (similar to the effects of cardiac arrest on the brain (Longstreth 2001).
Under anaerobic conditions (absence of free oxygen) acids such as lactic acid, acetic acid and butyric acid are produced during decomposition, as well as a number of alcohols which include butyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol and acetone.
Lack of petechiae.
In the majority of cases of asphyxiation, petechiae are formed, and Shan’ann exhibited none.
Time needed to cause petechiae is; Fifteen to thirty seconds (Anscombe and Knight 1996); Ten to thirty seconds (Plattner et al 2005); Fifteen seconds maximum (Copley & Kozam 1951) – using the capillary fragility test; “Shortly after” gravity inversion in healthy individuals (Friberg & Weinreb 1985)
Reay & Holloway (1982) state that during neck holds, the blood flow to the head is reduced by 85% within six seconds. Rossen et al 1943 states that loss of consciousness occurs in five to eleven seconds where there has been carotid and vertebral artery compression
Areas of bruising, internal.
The lack of a broken hyoid bone (called thyroid bone in the autopsy?) – could also suggest a Stranglehold.
Areas of bruising, external.
These may have been caused by an object, such as a necklace worn by the victim, or fabric, such as heavy-duty leather (such as a motorcycle jacket being worn by the murderer), and being compressed between the arm of the assailant and the neck/face of the victim. This would also suggest that the Stranglehold was done with a right arm, as this would correlate to the right-sided internal bruising, and the left-sided external bruising. However, the autopsy does not detail the size or spacing of these marks sufficiently to form an educated opinion.
Lack of defensive injuries.
A Stranglehold can incapacitate and render unconsciousness within 5 – 11 seconds. Maintaining compression in a Stranglehold after unconsciousness is rendered may result in death.
Addition. External bruising may have been caused by the assailant releasing the victim after killing by stranglehold, and the victim falling onto an object which would cause small circular patternation and subsequent bruising. Defining post mortem bruising requires qualified scientific investigation.
https://jcp.bmj.com/content/54/5/348
This is why Shan’ann had no defensive injuries, and this technique would account for everything in her autopsy, from blood alcohol/ethanol levels to an unbroken hyoid bone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYC7bHIzuqE
It’s good that you’re trying to demonstrate this and see it through. But you’re not thinking any further than that. In the first half of this demo, you have them face to face when the attack occurs. 1. Watts isn’t a trained jujitsu. 2. Any attacking motion he made that Shan’ann saw, even for a second, would have prompted her to scream. No screams were heard in the middle of the night. 3. Even in this scenario, you would expect fingernails in his forearm if Watts managed a rapid 10 second kill.
Also, I highly doubt Shan’ann was killed by pulling her down onto her back. It’s more likely the complete opposite. Remember, she was pregnant.
They said they found paper bags around both her hands. That’s why no defense wounds.
The paper bags are put on the hands to transport the victim after they are found deceased as to not contaminate any potential evidence around the hands, such as DNA evidence under the fingernails.
You know what they say, Sara….once you let your attacker get paper bags on your hands, there’s no defending yourself.
They are finger prints from his hands. I know, I’m a survivor of strangulation.
Will we ever know the order in which they were killed? This story breaks my heart. But I want to know so badly the time of death.
There’s a very clear indicator when the children died. I’ve not discussed it here though, it’s in the books.
Unfortunately, I know what it’s like to be strangled. I was near death before my ex took his hands off my neck. The next morning, visible fingerprints (the circular marks on Sha’ann’s autopsy), so visible that others took notice.
He had strangled me while I was pinned down to the floor, face up. He was holding me down by sitting on me, one leg on each side of my stomache.
I’m convinced that he did the same to Shan’ann. I’m a survivor. It’s hard to fight a larger man off of you when held down, in fear of dying and trying to gasp for air. It’s horrible.
I am not sure that he planned the murders. He could have planned to go to work early that morning so as to avoid talking to Shanann. I think he would have come up with a better plan as to where he would bury them. I think he may have snapped and killed Bella first. Maybe he lost patience with her. Then he felt he had to kill CeCe too. He knew now that he had to kill Shanann because she would find out. I really think that the pregnancy started the whole thing. He just didn’t want another baby. After that, then everything started going bad and stressing him out. Shannann even said that he was like another person. I think he had mental issues too.
Found this research paper — a stunning indictment of Multilevel Marketing (MLM) industry. I chose this thread that details the grisly aspects of the deaths to post it because, after reading the entire thing, it almost seems that there was an unrecognized accomplice in the Watts family murders. In the report, (link below) stories of financial devastation, destruction of relationships, and even murders and suicides paint a vivid picture of an “industry” built on lies and deception– a “business” that focuses its greedy eyes on the naive and the vulnerable.
MLM comes across in this paper as a cult-like entity that epitomizes absolute evil (evil = a foundation of lies) especially when you read the case histories. It was almost too much to absorb at one reading. The Watts family killings and the financial devastation, infidelity, and what appears on the videos as a mindless neglect of the children overlay all these sad accounts. Hopefully, one day we will know the whole truth of what was really going on in the lives of this tragic family; will one of the villains turn out to be MLM?
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00010%C2%A0/00010-57283.pdf
Wow, you are really reaching here. While I agree MLM is 100% a pyramid scheme and bad news and that the long term use of their products probably do more harm than good (e.g. think mass gall stones) the bottom line is CW is a Covert Narcissist whose life would enevidably have unraveled at some point as covert express traits thus as a pattern of behavior. To the extent on the spectrum that it played out is the horror. Sociopaths/Covert narcissists wreak havoc and(emotional) destruction on those around them without exception. They manipulate, connive and plot. They are ‘The People Of The Lie.’ (Scott Peck). They have no empathy, which enables them to be incrediably cruel, if it suits. This behavior is opposed to the dignity and respect of another person. Do not make it more complex than it need be please.
Thanks for the paper, ganana – I’m with you on this. The LeVel MLM was a huge contributing factor in this family’s financial collapse. Shan’Ann had been in a total of 6 MLMs that I could identify (Amway, Origami Owl, LulaRoe, Younique, ItWorks!, Thirty One, and Thrive – oops, that’s SEVEN); they’d already had to file bankruptcy in 2015; and now they were about to lose their house due to not being able to pay their bills. The money was going somewhere, and the ultimate location all points to Shan’Ann – the expensive preschool for their girls while Shan’Ann quit work to be a stay-at-home mom (she could have been taking care of them herself during the day instead of paying top dollar for strangers to); the Leona Helmsley-level of excessive expensive shoes; that trip to Arizona (which Shan’Ann had to pay for) when they were in such a dire financial disaster (credit cards all maxxed out) in service to her MLM; the expensive leased car whose payments weren’t guaranteed to be paid by the MLM company; all those manicures (those ain’t cheap) and so on and so forth. Shan’Ann was, to put it simply, addicted to her MLM lifestyle and that was the most important thing in her life.
In fact, I wonder if LeVel pulled some strings in Chris’ plea bargain – it would certainly be better for the MLM to not have details about its pernicious effect on this family’s finances coming out in a court trial. And the decision to move Chris out of state as well? Much more interest in the case in his home state; in Wisconsin, he’s just a number. Again, less bad publicity for LeVel.
“I consider it strange to have them there (in preschool) FT at their age, given the business she was in—seems like it could have been done “around” an at home schedule for the girls, IMO.”
Diana, this is something several of us have noted as well. Why would she quit her job to be a stay-at-home mom and then put the tots right into full-time daycare? To “do her business”? That seems to have been nothing but getting manicures, shopping, and making videos. With that much free time in the day, she could have gotten a part-time job and brought home real money.
This was the 6th MLM that Shan’Ann had been involved in – she was apparently a MLM junkie. And the fact that they’d had a bankruptcy in 2015 apparently hadn’t helped her wise up at all. It appeared to be an addiction by this point – it was all she wanted to do. Everything else was secondary or something to be minimized so she could focus on her addiction.
One of the predatory marketing techniques used by MLMs (which overwhelmingly target MOMs) is that they can be at home *with* their children, making extra money with little effort. Shan’Ann claimed to be pulling down $80,000 a year. If that were in fact the equivalent of an $80,000 *salary*, they wouldn’t have been behind on their mortgage and HOA dues. They’d already pulled $10,000 out of Chris’ 401K to try and get caught up on their mortgage, but they were somehow burning through money like there was no tomorrow. And all I can see is Shan’Ann’s MLM addiction coupled with the desire to live well beyond her means, to give an impression that she was rich-rich-rich, which I’m sure she envisioned as a way to promote her “business” – get new people to sign on. All those purchases, that expensive leased SUV that LeVel would only give her a car allowance for if she kept her sales up, the expensive preschool, the too-big house with all the fancy furnishings, several closets full of expensive shoes-shoes-shoes (yet she wore the same pair of flipflops every day), multiple purses, more clothes than one person could possibly be using, on and on and on. Every detail was wrong for them as a couple and as a family. Shan’Ann used everyone in service to her addiction, without really appearing concerned for how it was affecting them. I remember one video where she’s “tasting” one of the Thrive bars and effusing over how delicious it is, while one of her daughters cries with hunger in the background, and Shan’Ann tells the poor child, “No, you can’t have this – this is Mommy’s. Mommy’s earned this.” It seems likely she even planned to use her pregnancy and 3rd child in service to her MLM addiction – see https://crimerocket.com/2018/11/02/shanann-watts-intended-to-brand-baby-niko-and-credit-thrive-for-her-perfect-pregnancy-but-her-plan-backfired/
Something that might help with perspective is this financial article in which a wife writes in for advice, because her husband has started sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to a cult: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-woman-made-a-life-changing-decision-after-her-husband-gave-600000-to-a-cult-2017-07-10 . That’s the update; at the beginning of the article, there’s a link to the first contact between her and the financial counselor. Her spouse has a religious obsession/addiction; I think you’ll see similarities.
I hope this is okay, Nick – the way the financial counselor walks the wife through her options is important to understand and doesn’t appear to detract from your site’s mission and goals.
Does anyone know where I can view the autopsy pictures and/or videos? I am doing a project for school and i would like to have a look at them. And fyi, I am not going to use the actual pictures/videos in my project.
None of that is going to me made public, for obvious reasons.
Can anyone comment about the oil content in the one child’s stomach? Does this indicate that she was alive after being put into the oil tank?
No, this does not indicate that she was still alive. Celeste was found face down in that oil tank. Bella was face up in the oil tank. Its a matter of body position.
Muy triste.
i did not read many comments…so maybe others have notice this…Cece’s autopsy’s did not reveal her oesophasagus…( maybe wrong spelling )…surgery?…this can be a reason why CW tried to keep all of them health documentation avoid been public recorded?…because…there may have been some exageration about it ?…on the other side…insurance policies would have not give them money …so maybe this is why the medical bills so heavy?…there is something that i dont understand?
‘Esophageal strictures are typically treated with a procedure called esophageal dilation, during which a physician uses a small balloon to stretch open the scar tissue causing the narrowing in the esophagus’.
A history of this procedure could easily go unnoticed during an autopsy.
https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/conditions/e/esophageal-strictures
Hang on – the report includes this line:
“a medical history significant for peanut allergies”
Peanuts and tree nuts are VERY different, and supposedly CeCe had a *tree nut* allergy – coconut, not peanuts! So where’s the problem here?
Before I became a police officer- I was an EMT and I worked for 8 months for a company that transports dead bodies from where they die to funeral homes or the medical examiner. I’ve seen hundreds of bodies both recently deceased and WELL decomposed and I can assure you- while SOME bodies dedicate/urinate due to the relaxing of muscles at the time of death- it’s certainly not “most”. If anything, I would say it’s more like “few” / “some”. It’s definately not most.
First of all- the digestive tract is long. Only feces already in the lower part of the large intestine/colon is going to evacuate and even then- it depends on the position of the body, the amount of decomposition and rigor mortis. A person who is killed and immediately wrapped up and taken out of the home within an hour isn’t going to be in rigor in that time- the first rigor shows up in about 1-2 hours, and then takes about 12 hrs to fully develop… Then dissipates again about 12 hours later. So she wasn’t in rigor at the home and was likely just starting to show signs while he was burrying her at the site.
He said in his admissions that she deficated during the murder in thier bed, where he wrapped her in a sheet and moved her to the floor immediately- where he was interrupted by the girls waking up (after his first attempt to kill them by suffocating them in thier sleep)- the girls were killed in his truck… CeCe was wearing a diaper, so even if she had deficated or urinated – it would be unclear after days in the crude oil.. And Bella was likely not dead but simply unconscious again when he dumped her body- therefore, even if she did relax enough to evacuate her bowels and bladder- it wasn’t until she was in the crude oil tank.
The entire thing is horrific, but there’s a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding going on – several people mentioning the hyoid bone being in tact or the lack of patechia – but I can tell you from experience- I’ve seen severe patechia in a sick woman’s eyes and also in a drowning victim (age 2)- but in all 3 bodies I’ve observed during transport or autopsy- none had patechia and none had thier hyoid disturbed- I’ve only ever seen it broken in hanging/suicide cases or once in an auto accident that involved crushing injuries to the head and neck.
It seems as if the account Chris gave once he was finally in jail and writing letters was the truth. The HORRIFIC, worse than most of us originally thought truth; Bella and Cece were ALIVE on the drive, Bella even commented on “the smell” of her mother’s body on the floor under their feet in the back seat because her bowels had evacuated when she died; it’s horrific to know that he dumped those little girls, unconscious but still alive out of fear that they would wake up “again” – and the disgusting coward and monster that he is- he said he was FURIOUS that they “somehow woke up” after he thought he’d killed them in thier beds. The entire thing is one of the worst cases I’ve ever heard of- and I think about those poor responders who retrieved the bodies… May they find peace from those memories some day soon.
I love the way people just make things up and state it as fact, even when it completely opposes evidence in the case.
Why was the oil/sludge found in Bella’s stomach? Did anyone explain that? Celeste did NOT have any found in hers…?? Does this mean Bella was still alive when she was dropped into the tank?
No, there was no oil in her lungs.
Under Bella’s, part D
D: Oil, water and sludge debris was found in her stomach.
I just don’t understand this. Please explain
yes, that is great, there is no mention at all that there was any of the toxic mix of oil, water and sludge that was in Bella’s stomach, thankyou for pointing that out Nick.
Hello everyone,
I am new to this case, a couple of months of watching/listening to your videos Nick, and I am now working my way through your books. I have high praise for you, you are excellent at what you do. Thankyou.
I would just like to express an opinion of mine to you and all your readers.
It is my observation that Bella was unconscious but still breathing when she was and stomped on her head to get her into the tank. (this is horrific and the worst thing in the whole case, in my opinion).
Bella Watts Autospy Report
On page one of the report in the list of Diagnoses, it states:-
1. A ….
B ….
C ….
D Oil, water and sludge debris in the stomach
On page six of the report in the General Internal Examination findings, it states:-
Gastrointestinal Tract:
Esophagus: …..
Stomach: The stomach contains approximately 75mls of viscous green-black fluid which is suggestive of oil and particulate matter from the oil tank which she was in. etc.
I am of the opinion that: — Bella was unconscious but still breathing when she was forced brutally into the oil tank, and her injuries were sustained during this push. Once into the oil she gulped in the toxic mix of oil, water and sludge and died as a result of this as well as being unconscious. 75 mls is about 5 tablespoons or a third of a standard cup. It is my opinion that one could not have this mix in the stomach unless it was swallowed and if the stomping on the head didn’t bring Bella out of unconsciousness before being immersed in the oil, then she was very possibly (and hopefully) unaware of what was happening. This is horrific, shocking, my mind is greatly troubled by this aspect. I mean, nothing can be done of course, it is done and is over of course, I am stating the very obvious. But I am of course hoping that she was totally unaware in her unconsciousness.
Thankyou Nick for all your studies, research and insights.
And, as you point out in one of your replies to another’s comment about the oil in her body, there was no oil in her lungs, in her stomach yes, in her lungs no. Thankyou.