BREAKING: Last Photo/Footage of Shan’ann Watts Alive [August 13, 2018/01:48]

This is a screengrab from the Ring doorbell camera at 2825 Saratoga Trail. In her left hand, Shan’ann is holding her phone. Over her shoulder Nickole Atkinson is backing down the drive. Once inside the door, Shan’ann waved and Atkinson drove off. What happened next remains unknown.

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Is the shirt she wore the one she was buried in?

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167 thoughts on “BREAKING: Last Photo/Footage of Shan’ann Watts Alive [August 13, 2018/01:48]

  1. Not the same shirt.
    Also I notice she’s not wearing the pregnancy shorts that Chris had laid out like she had worn them
    This photo makes me very very deeply sad knowing what’s coming for her right after.

    Liked by 4 people

  2. Is this from the discovery documents that one needs to purchase or..how was this grabbed (pardon the pun?) It’s very weird seeing this. I feel like telling her “nooo don’t go in that house!” as if it’s an actual horror movie and unfortunately, it is not.

    Liked by 1 person

    • @Ralph Oscar- I truly don’t understand how you can say there was “no way out” for Chris. He had a way out. It was divorce. Period. It may not be the “out” that he wanted, but his outcome would have been no different than the countless men and women who are in his exact situation and make the decision to divorce. Imagine if those men and women all just killed their families instead. Now Shan’ann on the other hand, she COULD have had an out, but Chris took that option away from her.

      Liked by 3 people

      • I agree, ncam619. Chris had a friend or acquaintance who said, and this is not quoted exactly, “Dude, you could have done a thousand different things.” Chris chose badly, one of the biggest mistakes of his life. None of the family has options now.

        Liked by 2 people

      • “He had a way out. It was divorce. Period.”

        No, that was not an option for Chris. Please read more of the information and commentary here and maybe you’ll begin to understand.

        Acknowledging that someone had his reasons for what he did – and Chris obviously had reasons for doing what he did – doesn’t make what he does “right” or “good” or “acceptable”. But it *can* be understandable, if you’re willing to gather the information and attempt to understand what Chris was thinking leading up to the tragic events.

        The fact that there are many options does not mean that every option is equally accessible for every person. In this case, divorce was definitely NOT an option for Chris, and there is plenty of information and discussion on this site to explain for you way this is – if you’re that interested. I suspect you’re not.

        Saying “He could have” and “He should have” [done something else] is not at all helpful, because he didn’t. That is the fact.

        Liked by 1 person

      • What you need to keep in mind, ncam619, is that Chris was doing his best. If he could have done *better*, he would have. To him, multiple murder appeared to be the best option – because that’s what he did.

        All that’s left for us is to sift through the evidence to see if we can understand *why* this appeared to be the best option – TO CHRIS.

        Starting from accepting the fact that Chris chose to murder – that’s our start point, remember – we then parse the information, drill down into the documents, examine the evidence, and see if we can’t come up with a persuasive explanation for why he did what he did.

        Because Chris did what he did.

        It is too late for “He had a way out. It was divorce. Period.” Because he didn’t. You want to tell everyone that he *could* have chosen to simply divorce Shan’Ann and work out a custody arrangement, but that means you’re unable to accept the reality of our starting point here: Chris murdered Shan’Ann and his two daughters. There’s no “coulda-woulda-shoulda” in play before that event that kicks off Nick’s and our investigation here.

        Liked by 1 person

      • If you have ever made a mistake, think back on it. Maybe it was a really big mistake, like a choice of a mate, buying an expensive thing you couldn’t afford, a job you took or one you left. Do you think of that mistake and regret making it? Were there other options instead of what you chose to do? There always are but we can’t see them at the time due to our own patterns of thinking, our values, upbringing, and a thousand other factors. We just don’t see the other options and we make a move we regret later. I’ve done this and have had plenty of time to think of those other options that were there, but I didn’t see them.

        Chris Watt’s mistakes are our mistakes, writ large.

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    • CBH, my thoughts exactly: I am surprised how sad this makes me feel. A few months ago, I was being quite negstive (criticism devoid of empathy) regarding Shan’ann. Nick responded that I wasn’t being kind and that I’d feel differently if I saw her murdered body. Internally, I was dismissive of this counsel. These screen grabs are like standing on the edge of her grave before her remains arrive. Nick was right.

      Liked by 4 people

      • It almost feels obscene, watching her coming home for the last time. It’s the most honest video of her I’ve seen – she’s not posing or posturing or faking, no glamour or glitz or façade. She’s just coming home like anyone else. There’s a real intimacy to it – this is the REAL Shan’Ann. You can see how exhausted she is, how she’s just getting to where she needs to be going. She’s just a normal, tired, vulnerable person.

        The more you learn about the case, the more you study the dynamics between all the participants, the more you can appreciate each person’s humanity, can’t you? What appears open and shut at first becomes much more complicated and nuanced. One of the things I’ve come to appreciate was that there was simply no way out for Chris. There was no way out for Shan’Ann, either. They were both trapped in a falling elevator. It’s just really, really sad.

        Liked by 4 people

      • I’ve been feeling much more kindly towards Shan’ann recently, too. Although she didn’t do things the way I would, she comes across as sweet, genuine, and very earnest in her Facebook Live videos, (which I have begun watching for some reason. ) A beautiful young woman, in between the ages of my own daughter and my older son, and so full of enthusiasm and life. (Literally, with Niko.)

        I’m about 80% through Drilling Through Discovery, and I love a certain quote of Nick’s, something to the effect of “murder is a natural artifact of lying.” That quote took me back to a very dark time in my marriage and family life, wherein all I did was lie. I lied to everybody; I put false names with fake numbers into my phone, blatantly lied about my reasons for traveling to another state, and felt total contempt and disregard for my husband. (I still loved my kids, and they are a huge part of the reason I pulled out of that free fall. ) I never considered murder, not at all, but I had horrible thoughts about how “easy” my life would be if my husband were just to disappear. No custody fight over our young son, no more of him blowing my cover to my family and telling them what was *really* going on, no more of his nasty drunken mouth. Like Chris, I had almost an entire summer to myself, as my husband moved south to our new home before I did, and our son joined him there on the fourth of July, courtesy of my parents. So, for about five weeks, until the middle of August when I relocated to our new home, I had a lot of freedom, and I liked it. Yes, there was an affair partner, and I’d met him at work. The parallels are just too crazy.

        I made other choices. By the grace of God, I did the relocation, and was miserable at first, but then something miraculous happened. I started to build a life there, and rebuild my family. That was the choice I made. Like myself, like Shan’ann, my husband is a good but flawed human being, and a decade plus later, we are still working things out. We have money issues, relationship struggles, and we sometimes forget to be kind to one another. But, it is with a whole new attitude. We thank one another for things, and we are about to embark on our first road trip together since our son was born almost 22 years ago.

        Divorce would have been another legitimate choice, but financial problems mainly kept me from pursuing that avenue, and I’m grateful I stayed.

        My husband isn’t perfect, but I made other choices. Shan’ann wasn’t perfect, but Chris, too, had other choices. And for the love of everything holy, what in fact did those children ever do to deserve their fate? I’m sorry for Chris that he felt so trapped, but I’m way sorrier for his wife and children that their choices were taken away needlessly.

        Liked by 4 people

      • EllTee, no reply option on your post, but if you see this, thank you for that bio info. It’s highly intimate and personal, so it’s the sort of thing not everyone would choose to disclose (that honesty thing again). It’s the boots on the ground that often offer the most profound insight – when you’ve been there, you see it in a way that onlookers can’t. I really liked the way you linked lying with murder, how the lying murders humanity. Honesty is extra hard for some people, due to toxic upbringings and PTSD-inducing past experiences. When so much shame has been programmed into a person, being wrong becomes something to be deeply feared. This is a fairly commonplace artefact of Christian indoctrination – deep-seated feelings of generalized guilt and shame, ready to be invoked whenever a person does anything wrong. Sort of Pavlovian. But if we can get there to the honesty, accept that yes, we’re going to make mistakes and srsly, that’s the only way we learn, and that we can make mistakes and people will still love us, it’s really worth it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Ralph, “It almost feels obscene.” Indeed. Poignant, heartfelt comments that capture the Watts’s sad journey and the seemingly pre-determined aspect of it given the characters’ tragic flaws. Thank you.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I agree. Also in some of her last videos, even though she said she was Thriving, she seemed to always look tired and not as motivated. By watching them it seemed everything was forced acting. Seems the pregnancy, raising two young ones, debt, medical problems, and Chris’s changing ways all were taking a toll on her. Heartbreaking seeing her walk in the front door and not know what was in store for her.

        Liked by 1 person

    • CBH Same here. Also the shirt, although it’s hard to tell what the design of the shirt is in the drying locker, but the neckline and the color, of what part you can see in the drying locker, seems to match. I don’t recall anything on the jeans she was wearing. Quite possibly they became stained after her death and Chris possibly got rid of them with other evidence in the dumpsters at the address he stopped at for 4 minutes before going home to meet with NA and Officer Coonrod. and also to make it look like she had gotten ready for bed according to his story. IMO I believe he attacked her from behind not long after she entered the home. Jumping off the subject here,and I also may be grasping, I believe Officer Coonrod stated the house smelled of chemicals and the carpet had been vacuumed . I do not know what kind of vacuum cleaner they used I assume bagless, I wonder about where the contents(maybe some evidence) from the vacuum cleaner were emptied. I have been hooked on this case ever since my sister sent me the Youtube link of Officer Coonrod’s body cam footage a little over a month ago. I remember hearing about it on the news at the time, but did not follow it as it progressed until I watched the body cam footage after he had been sentenced. Now there is tons of info and videos. I guess there is only one person who knows the exact timeline of events and he ain’t talking…Yet. My apologies for the rambling. I am a retired Marine and since my life isn’t as exciting as it once was I have become obsessed trying to figure out this case…lol

      Liked by 3 people

      • Hi ya usmcvet – if you look closely at the pictures down inside the kitchen wastebasket it looks to me like gray dusty lint and fluff possibly from the bagless vacuum cleaner. Before they pulled the sheet out. Nice to see you, Semper Fi.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Hi usmcvet152, my husband is also a former Marine, and proud of it ! I actually think the shirt is the same one, mostly based on what looks like a curve in design on the upper right chest area – clear in the above picture but very faint in the evidence photo. I could be wrong though. It seems to be a style that she wore frequently in her Thrive videos, so it’s very difficult to tell for sure. I also feel a tug seeing this — she definitely was at the end of a very long day and had had one of those really aggravating days that are unique to airports and flying. Chris had given her cause to be a little optimistic about their relationship, too, which makes it even more poignant Very sad…..

        Liked by 2 people

      • usmcvet: here is the slide show I was referring to. The dust/lint is in the kitchen trash but appears to be there after the sheet was removed, not before as I said previously. See if you think it could be dust from the bagless vacuum cleaner. It’s at 1:26

        Liked by 1 person

  3. It’s the same shirt. The letter “O” is consistent in all of them and the coloring of the last photo matches the closes to the one she wears as she enters her home. This gives credence to Nick’s theory that she was likely killed at the foot of the stairs – she didn’t have time to change clothes. Very eerie. I felt like yelling, “Don’t go inside! The monster is within!”

    Liked by 4 people

    • Unfortunately that’s not the same shirt. She was buried in It’s says love. The evidence was a shirt with large heart and was originally purple ombré. Victoria secret heart shirt. So if this picture is really her from that night. Then she changed her cloths. Before murder happened

      Liked by 1 person

      • wendy, I agree – it’s not the same shirt. The burial shirt had different layers of color – like a tie dye, but in blocks of color – and someone held one up that was supposedly the shirt, clean, with a silver peace symbol logo on the front that looked to be the same shirt. Also I doubt the hoodie Watts put on her bed is the same as the black jacket she’s wearing here, and as you can see, she’s not in shorts. The shorts were on the bench with other clothes, but she’s not wearing them here. And, now I can see the phone was not tucked into her purse. She’s also larger than I had imagined, very pregnant.

        Liked by 1 person

    • I read somewhere a few times that she was wearing a might\shirt with a peace sign on it? Thats prob why I’m biased to think it isn’t the same shirt, I still think they look different as per the pattern on it

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  4. This is very sad, especially as her friend waited until she got into the house safely before driving away. At least this video gives us more information regarding the attire she wore upon returning. I believe it is a different shirt as the doorbell video one looks like a uniform colour (gray?) with the word “Love” written on it The shirt she was found in appears to be of a graduated colour (like tie dye) with the outline of a heart on it and writing or illustrations within the heart. (Just my immediate response, I could be wrong). It would also appear the BAC report of Thomas Mollett is accurate. She does not appear intoxicated in any way, her gait and balance are completely within normal limits. She also had no apparent problem with eye-hand co-ordination as she typed in the code and opened the door quickly, even with it being the middle of the night (limited light/shadows and with her physical state of being quite tired).

    Liked by 3 people

    • The shirt on the hanger *does* look like an ombré with different colors, but the gray at the bottom left matches the original shirt color and it’s got the same logo (backwards on the hanger because the shirt is inside out). In the time between death and retrieval, it’s possible the shirt could have faded from being out in the elements or chemicals or something and only that lower left corner of the shirt remains the original color.

      Liked by 1 person

      • the second photo above of the shirt is a photo negative –

        Also she wouldn’t wear to bed the same shirt she sat at the airport in for hours. That is, if she dressed herself. Also I see there are toothbrushes on her side of the sink, so she wouldn’t have needed to take her toothbrush out of her suitcase, and she didn’t. However, the bathroom is undisturbed. If her pants are missing and her jacket (unless he fished them out of the laundry during the K9 prep) then a) he not only “felt” her getting into bed, he also knew she put her clothes in the dirty clothes laundry or b)he put them there. He wants us to think she went to bed and they had an emotional conversation at 4 a.m. That’s why he’s gone to great pains to bring the eye upstairs and make it look like she went to bed. Also what kind of a person lays his dead wife’s clothes at the foot of the bed – with a paper leis? One that destroyed what she was wearing or is concealing it. Also I see the “blue thing” over by the comforter pile on the floor – which then got shoved under the bed. I don’t think it’s a nitrile glove now, as Officer Coonrod and Baumhoven would have made note of it but it’s something Watts moved around.

        On an emotional side yes, it’s disturbing watching someone walk to their death. How horrible would it have been for her if she knew her children were dead. If he killed her upon entry she never had to know.

        Liked by 3 people

  5. It appears he buried her in the tee shirt she had on minus the sweater and pants. I don’t think she got very far in the house before he attacked. CW must have counted on the late hour deterring Nickole from coming in as she had her own young kids to hurry home to.

    It is very sad. Despite everything, she and her kids should still be alive.

    Liked by 3 people

      • It is so disturbing that we know what is behind the door. It’s yet another incredibly tragic irony that Shan’ann documented her life on video, yet she had no idea walking up those steps that she was in the final video of her life.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Ugh. My thoughts exactly. It truly could have been seconds. This video is very disturbing to watch. It’s a scenario that I’ve imagined in my head a million times, (SW walking up to her front door for the last time) and to actually see it after all this time is…strange. There are moments in this case where I just feel so bad bad for Shan’ann, and this is one that really hits me. This poor woman suffered tremendously at the end of her life. It’s also terrible as a mother to think “if only she knew”…her children were likely already dead inside that house.

        Liked by 2 people

    • I believe CW turned off the cameras at the router, Sara. Same reason there aren’t any images or data from the cameras inside the home after SW got home. The router, which is the master brain for all the components of the security system, was manually shut down so as to not see what was going to happen.

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      • Ralph, Do we know for sure that there is no such footage? I mean we are just now seeing Shanann at the door. How do we know there was no other footage that simply has not been released? What evidence did the Colorado folks present Cindy and Ronnie Watts with to make them do such a 180 from their son is not that monster to We accept that he did this?

        I’ve thought that the connection to WiFi may have been terminated as well, but when? How could Chris have terminated the connection so fast if he was waiting behind the pillar for instance? Even so, wouldn’t the Vivint system have switched to cellular to operate?

        Liked by 1 person

      • Not that footage from the door ring camera would have meant much to the Watts as they had bought into Chris’ version of what happened, understandably as it is their son.
        I don’t think there were any cameras in the house, only at the door. The living room motion sensor alerted and then that was it. Discovery Page 1979

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      • I do too! He turned it off during rendezvous with Kessinger so Shanann would not know if he was staying with Kessinger. We know he messed with the system and that made a Shanann angry because she felt it was the company. This is why he lied to her about still being on the phone with them trouble shooting in July, after he had hung up. He told the cops during discovery on page 12 that it recorded her bc he viewed footage from his phone. He also stated on page 56 that it should record doorbell. But if you notice there is no recording of Friend Nichol at noon. As you stated above the system will alert but not record without the router. The router was imo unplugged during the first motion sensor detection at 418 am. The digital discovery included photos of basement showing the router and showing the baby monitor was unplugged as well. Remember Sandi mentioned check the baby monitor” . This leads me to believe he killed Shanann went and unplugged the baby monitor then went down to unplug router. The question I have is where her pants are. In the digital release there is a Maurice jacket black which would be the jacket we see but where are those jeans and why are they not on the bedroom floor in photos?

        Liked by 1 person

      • If the front door camera was on when Shan’ann came in, did Chris quickly turn off everything so there wouldn’t be any videos of what he did…Or can the doorbell camera be left on for the time being and the rest of the system inside the house turned off.

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  6. Well, I wasn’t expecting to see that. Brings it all right back to the beginning again. I feel like that’s not the same shirt because it just doesn’t look long enough as the one she’s wearing. Chris lied about only being able to see as far as the bottom step, as he bounced down to demonstrate

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    • Agree with Karen about there being two different shirts. The shirt she wore home appears solid blue. The shirt she was found in seems to be the “hombre” type, with graduated colors. Both appear to have heart designs.

      Chris had to make it look as if she’d come home and gone to bed — his story was that she came home, went to bed, woke up at 4, they talked and he left for work. She wouldn’t have worn her travel tee shirt to bed — he’d said something about her wanting to get the airport off her when she came home. So he could have changed her shirt himself to make it appear that she’d changed for bed. He could have removed her dark colored leggings to indicate that she was a victim of an assault if her body was ever found.

      This part of the story brings disturbing thoughts of death – my own and that of recently deceased loved ones. The thought intrudes that one day, we will get dressed, go about our business, make our plans, and for one reason or another, in the sheer randomness that is life, that will be our last day.

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  7. I can’t believe we finally see this footage. And it reminds me again how shocked (an understatement) I am that a regular dad & husband decided to murder his family one night. What if everything else remains the same but you swap out that $400k house for a modest $175k home and plenty of money left over for savings and substantially less debt.. Would he still make the same decision? Or just walk away with NK?

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    • In thinking about the recurring questions we have about why Chris didn’t make a better choices, I keep coming back to something I thought about when I first heard about this crime. That he could have been under the influence of something chemical. He has a dreamlike demeanor in his Sermon on the Porch, like he was weightless and flying a little above it all. Contrast that appearance with how he appeared in court.

      There seems to be some evidence of medicines in the household, possibly painkillers left over from Shan’ann’s neck surgery or other things like that. He could certainly have purchased things himself. I haven’t seen any analyses of ingredients in the Thrive products and what their possible mental effects could be with long term use.

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      • He did look dissociated, didn’t he? His demeanor and reactions were all wrong in the Sermon on the Porch – alarmingly so. Being under the influence of some mood-altering substance provides a tantalizing explanation. This possibility takes me right back to “the Green Beret Murders”, where Jeffrey McDonald was supposedly under the influence of ” diet pills” when he murdered his wife (I think she was pregnant) and their two young daughters…

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  8. Imo,I dont think it’s the same shirt. The shirt Shan’ann arrived home in is clearly gray. The other shirt is ombre. I’m so glad this video was finally released so these idiot “armchair detectives” can knock it off with this stupid false narrative they’ve created of there somehow being a chance that this was a hoax because no one ever saw the video of Shan’ann entering her home.

    Liked by 1 person

    • True, ncam619, that the release of this video is a good thing. What a day! finding out what has been purported to have happened to Kelsey Berreth and then coming over to Nick’s site and seeing the final footage of Shanann.

      But…. if you look at the picture closely, the purse shows as gray when it is pink. You can see the purse better in pictures of the post just above this post. To me, the lighting at night is causing some colors to look off in the footage.

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      • Liz sorry to reply under this but in regard to security switching to cellular you are correct cellular will allow alerts BUT the router stores the footage and allows the complete functionality of the system. I have this system . It switches to cellular to give you protection during loss of power.

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        • So turning off the router or the power, and your phone, effectively puts the system in the dark. It’s blind, right?

          What do you know about some “secret microphone” Vivint has? Credible or conspiracy theory?

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      • Nick a lady on YouTube has the same system and she figured it all out few weeks about the footage/ sound they likely have from the night of the murders. There’s a tiny hole on the panel that’s a camera. And another tiny hole on the side that’s the speaker/mic. It’s on 24/7, you can’t access that footage, vivint monitor it if it comes to that. BUT in Chris watts case the police can subpoena vivint and obtain that footage and audio.
        Cutting your power to it won’t shut it off. It has a backup battery. Turning your WiFi off won’t stop it either. It communicates via encrypted Z-wave.
        I think this is the footage the police showed Frankie junior that identified his family murdered and possibly also being murdered. He could have possibly heard the murders too. It’s also the footage that shut CW mother and father up into silence after their media crusade.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Maybe. Seems unlikely Watts didn’t know about that though. And if they had video evidence of the crimes being executed they probably wouldn’t need a confession.

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    • I did a bit of light searching and I couldn’t find Vivint advertising this camera and mic on the control panel. I don’t think it’s blatently advertised for this reason, that it’s meant as a last resort for when things go really bad upon a security breach of a home. Vivint won’t breach privacy by constantly viewing it. But if police need it, it’s there and it will be subpoenaed. My guess is that police aren’t publically stating this feature as part of the findings as its meant to stay private for security reasons but we do know for sure that the family were shown different footage from the neighbour next door. Does the prosecutor have to describe this information in detail to public? Maybe he doesn’t. I don’t know.
      Apparently Vivint hold onto this data at their end and for 3 months. The owner can’t view it on their phone or have it at their disposal. But in cases like CW it’s there for back up. CW was smart in some areas, and somewhat inept in others. He thought he could outsmart the system by turning off settings and power and routers and the like. But he didn’t know about this feature on it.
      You can hear on the officers body cam in some of the videos the Vivint system saying battery low. Because…. it was on battery back up….hmmm

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Just had a thought. If the basement door was left open at 5:27? And the garage door was left open at the same time, as per the security system. He must’ve had them all down there. And he was carrying them out to the truck at that exact time of the door alerts. Shan’ann in a bedsheet and the girls in garbage bags. Her dad said “you carried them out like trash”…
    Also, the vivint panel.. that’s how her family saw him carrying them all out. On the main panel next to there internal garage door there’s a secret microphone and secret camera that only vivint have access to. And that’s what is not mentioned properly in the discovery. I believe something was blacked out? or not fully included regarding vivint.

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  10. Where was the released? How did Sherry Wiens get it? Also the shirt is the same. In the airport photo Addy Molony posted which said Cancelled flights call for More yummy AZ grub you can see it. There are a lot of people posting the large group dinner photo from the date August 11th incorrectly and it’s csusing havoc.

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    • We can’t even agree on a shirt. I think that is why the DA often strikes a plea or accepts a plea. Leaving a man’s future open to jury observations is just too risky when the stakes are so high. So I often make this mistake by referring to the previous post but the continuum is not always exact, but if you want a good view of the Shanann’s purse, it is in the pictures under the post Bella and CeeCee: Murdered in their Beds?

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      • “We can’t even agree on a shirt.”

        We might, if we could see it IRL, up close, for ourselves. Remember, they’re going off much better information than we get.

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  11. Just my 2 cents.. It is not the same shirt she was buried in. This makes me so so sad. I didn’t think this would ever be released. Also, there’s a screenshot floating around where Frankie Jr stated on Facebook that he was shown a video of Chris carrying the bodies into the truck.. From this vantage point, I believe this video could have been the one that Frankie Jr saw.

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    • “there’s a screenshot floating around where Frankie Jr stated on Facebook that he was shown a video of Chris carrying the bodies into the truck.”

      I have heard people say that as well, but I’ve looked at all the videos and there is no such video. Just Chris’s feet, visible under the truck, walking back and forth. No other information.

      If this “Chris carrying the bodies” imagery were available, we’d all have it, wouldn’t we? People get an idea in their minds – “At some point, Chris had to carry the bodies to the truck to transport them” -, start to visualize the scene, and, since it *was* part of what happened, begin to believe that there is video/photo evidence of this.

      There’s not. Go ahead, someone prove me wrong – I would *love* it!

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      • Ralph Oscar, we obviously have not seen this video before, so it is possible that there is more video that either has not been released or will never be released. I am still not 100 percent sure that the doorbell did not record CW taking the bodies out. Where he stands in the video to demonstrate to police is closer than where we can see SW move into the scene. He may have counted on getting a phone alert that didn’t work or some other method the security company uses to protect people from a home invasion.
        I do believe he would have had to dispose of SW’s slacks because it would be impossible to prevent her body from releasing urine and feces at death. She also had a stone, kidney or gal,l so I imagine she was in a lot of pain after flying.That was in the autopsy report about the stone. Another thing I am morbidly curious about is how SW was unable to defend herself as there was no indication that she was able to attack CW during her strangulation. I thought strangulation caused a huge burst of adrenaline, so I wonder if he had her off the ground in someway so that her legs and arms could not reach him? Being on the bed or even the floor would most likely have left staining or other evidence.
        The shirt does seem similar, the cut of the neckline is the same, but it is hard to tell from the pictures.To visualize CW changing her shirt is horrifying for me so maybe I just hope it is the same shirt. Viewing her alive and appearing so defeated in the way she walks and carries her bags is just heartbreaking.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Yes, I remember hearing about that. Frankie saw the videos and from the vantage point of this doorbell camera it seems it would be possible to see what he was loading on the truck. Maybe it was part of the plea deal to save him from more embarrassment not to show that video? Or the family asked because it was disrespectful to the victims by the way they were being carried, basically like trash like her dad mentioned? I am leaning towards her getting ready to go to bed or already asleep during the attack because the shirts are different, no defensive wounds and him during the interview saying “she barely made …”, which based on the question the reporter seemed to be asking about sleep or being in bed. He stopped saying more because it would compromise him.

        Liked by 1 person

      • K, agreed that there are likely more videos to come out, but if Frankie saw one showing bodies being loaded into the truck, he’s the only one outside of law enforcement to see that video to this point. I’m talking about other people I’ve spoken with who’ve heard about this case who state “There were videos showing him loading the bodies into his truck” when that simply isn’t the case. These were people who hadn’t seen anything; they’d just “heard”. And Frankie isn’t the most reliable witness, frankly – he said that Shan’Ann had made $500,000 off MLMs, for goshsakes! Until I see this “loading up the bodies” footage for myself or a description of its contents is released in official documentation, I’m not counting it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Shannon by your definition then everyone is a liar and their words can’t be taken seriously.
        Everyone lies or has lied.
        There are things to back up that he is telling the truth
        1. That the Rzuceks did see footage that the public didn’t. It was stated in court. That’s not hard to grasp given that in respect of SW and the girls and their family they’d rather keep something so awful private and away from the public.
        2. They wrote a letter to the lady who has the same vivint system as CW did. Confirming they had to see things we havent seen, to identify SW and the girls. I think they appreciated that someone was advocating for SW and showing some truth, and they saw this lady had nailed it in particular. With all the SW bashing, this prob was a tiny light for them to help keep SW reputation.
        3. Something shut Cindy and Ronnie watts up into complete silence. That is without a doubt true. What that is hasn’t been detailed. But it’s fairly obvious what it is. They were shown what Frankie junior was shown. That lady would never have let go of accusing SW AND taking swipes at her otherwise
        4. Not excivdnce as such but are we forgetting Frankie is a victim in all this?. I doubt he’s going to lie about seeing something esp when FBI, CBI and LE are all involved in trying to solve this case

        Like

      • What is he dragging while he is walking backwards in the video then? Frankie even commented on this part of the footage.Explaining how he is walking and that it is his sister that he is dragging. If I could show a screen shot of the comment and the video clip I would. The video clip i have is straight from the discovery it has not been edited. The Discovery has the videos in clips. No the videos do not show the actual bodies because Chris made sure that they were not visible but what else would he be dragging walking backwards?

        Like

  12. I agree with the previous comments. We dont know everything. Thats why he took the plea deal and his parents did a 180 turn pretty quickly once they saw the evidence we didnt get to see. And her dad telling him “I saw the video”…Very telling. And those are different shirts. The one she arrives says love on the front and the one she was found had a metallic heart on front, quite different. If it is a victory secret shirt she was probably going to bed…remember the interview on the porch “she barely made…” she barely made to bed Chris! We know! You killed her on her pajama victoria secret shirt when she was going to bed…

    Like

  13. Sylvester: Thanks for info, went back and looked. Guess my attention to detail ain’t what it used to be either…lol…Still trying to play catch-up with all of this and also going through the discovery report and reading the series of books by nickvdl on this case only on Book 2 so far, plus all the videos…..Semper Fi!

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Shirts are very different, one is gray with a red or orange “Love” sign and the other has a metal heart and the color is purple on the bottom with gradual tones of lighter purple going up. I remember somebody once posted in those facebook groups a picture of her wearing this shirt so we can really see what it looked like. Maybe somebody will post again, but I remember seeing her wearing it before and it is very different from the one she was wearing that night.

    Like

    • Thanks for posting this, LaraLeon. I believe you are right. This could mean that she changed into her nightshirt; I don’t know why Chris would have changed the shirt or nightshirt she was in at time of murder since he wasn’t expecting her to be found.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Like her dad said “She was sleeping because she had strong legs and would fight back”. In this scenario, she went upstairs, took her clothes off, put her handbag on the door handle, and she was so tired that she did not even take her make up off (I have done that before). She just put her thrive pills by the bed and went to sleep thinking she would have to get up early to take the girls to school. He waited until she fell asleep and attacked her, she had no chance of defending herself. This explains why she was in underwear and a shirt that looked like a pajama shirt.

        Like

    • Sylvester, I tried pausing it and I could not, but the picture I have seen is Shanann wears the iWatch and her wedding ring on her left wrist and left hand which is hard to see as she has the purse and phone in that hand, plus Nickole’s car lights. But if someone can take it to a larger screen they might can see. If I get really curious I may try it, but with a broken limb currently, my incentive for pain (movement) is low.

      Like

  15. Nick, about your comment on my comment “This explains why she was in underwear and a shirt that looked like a pajama shirt.>>>Many people share your theory. It’s not the theory of TCRS.” I know, I read all your books and considered your theory also which is very convincing, but now with additional information a theory is becoming more solid for me, although I have to say I am not totally convinced of either one at this point but your books gave me very interesting arguments and additional insights on their relationships and personality disorders

    Like

    • It’s important to be very clear what the TCRS position is, especially where we have someone like you who has read the books and is commenting here, essentially still discounting or doubting what is discussed in the narratives.

      It’s also very damaging to say, “I read your theories but this little bit of information changes everything. I now have a new theory. Oh…actually now I have no idea.”

      The difference between us is that the TCRS position is very firm, but not dogmatic. If one item of evidence blew up the theories in the books, then that would show them to be truly worthless, and also that the effort that is done at this site is completely meaningless. Many critics would love and applaud that, and you are inadvertently playing precisely that card.

      What you don’t realize, apparently, is that the theories aren’t based on one scrap of evidence, it’s a meticulously assembled orrery of overlapping evidence, psychological data, logic, intuition and true crime intertextuality. I get that many unfamiliar with my work are dismissive of the value of this insight, or find it laughable. That’s fine. Some get it and find value in it, some don’t.

      Which is why I have to be clear: the TCRS position remains the same in terms of when, where and how she was murdered.

      Liked by 2 people

  16. As to the router, my router has a battery back up in case of power outage. I wonder if CW’s system had a battery back up and if it is removable. The battery is separate on mine, and also used telephone cables and WiFi, my system is old and not used anymore, but I would guess CW thought about the battery too. There is a separate electrical box installed that connects the system to fire and police by telephone. Some of these systems are extremely difficult to disable, even after discontinued they will still beep occasionally and there are google searches dealing with how difficult it can be to disable when the service is no longer wanted. My low heat detector still works even though I don’t use the service anymore, and the alarm beeps every time there is a power outage. My system is about 20 years old. I think the security companies use special systems that even an electrician can not disable. So I do wonder how much CW was truly able to remove.

    Like

  17. The shirt she was buried in is a sleep shirt/nightgown. It comes down to the upper thigh (I have the same VS sleepshirt, and I am 5’9″ for reference). It is not a shirt that you would wear out of the house as it is too long and relatively sheer.

    Like

  18. Hi Nick.
    Sorry I don’t know how to link to this page. You might want to check this out.
    Armchair Detective.
    Watts in the shadows.
    Video of the front porch, 2nd further away porch window.
    You can actually see a Shadow on the front porch, from the window.
    Different views, one minute no shadow as she is coming to the door, a Shadow appears on the concrete. Then as she enters key, shadow gone.
    Chris ….don’t know was watching her coming to the front door, like a few of us have said, he probably attacked the minute she closed the door.
    Shadow gone after the key.

    Like

  19. Sorry, video released by a Miss Shelley Wiens.
    HLN – an open records request from weld county district attorney office.
    Rourke said the recieved daily emails, texts calls mail….from the public on this case.
    So maybe we aren’t that crazy after all. Seems like people are not satisfied with this case.

    Like

  20. Shannon, the video that is posted here on this website is Sherry not Shelly. Armchair is a crackpot but if you see something, oh well. I took a look at the CNN video, maybe the bushes have some shadows in them from Nicoles car. Or maybe he is in the window. But I would guess that most people who fly a lot have airline apps on their phones that track flights and he would easily have known that the plane landed even if SW didn’t message him.

    Like

    • There Obliviously is another camera. I watched the video a few times, I saw the Shadow! In fact I watched a few different videos.
      I guess you can’t see the front porch from the other angle and see a Shadow.
      Oh well.

      Like

    • Ok
      I guess if your gonna kill someone, might as well have a tea in the kitchen while you wait for them to come home. Instead of getting ready when car lights pull up.
      I never that the Video Nick is showing is from anyone! There are quite a few videos out now.
      As for lights on the front porch….wtf…the car is no where near the porch and is going the opposite way. You show me how much you Don’t pay attention.
      Fuck.

      Like

      • Shannon, here’s the thing. I am a great believer in reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. I think it’s important to have conversations without resorting to personal attacks of name calling and using nasty, uncouth language because that is not dialogue. To me, is is important to admit when I post something and I am wrong, without resorting to school yard bulling.That is my attempt to be gracious on this site, as a guest of NICKVDL. You posted incorrect information about the woman who posted the you tube video and went as far as to say that you had even googled her linked. page. You also tried to link a known conspiracy theorist, Armchair, about a shadow that you claim to see. I thought this blog did not want conspiracy theory posted on this site. The Watts in the Shadow stuff you posted about is garbage. You have said a few insulting things here and I chose at the time to ignore them. After being told that I must need glasses and don’t pay attention, I was surprised that such a seemingly intelligent thoughtful person such as yourself would say such things. I also saw that you were whining and complaining about new people, like a school yard bully telling on kids to get them in trouble. So I know that you do lack maturity and insight on a very basic level. That must be why it is so easy for you to deride a pregnant woman’s weight. Her weight has nothing to do with this criminal case and your observation sounds petty and cruel. It’s your opinion that SW is fat and it is your opinion that you can see a shadow. And it’s my opinion that you are wrong. I have enjoyed reading the comments and the new posting every day at this blog. I may not always agree with everything here but being challenged about my own thoughts is a wonderful thing, and I hope you are able to find a way to allow others to state their responses without personal attacks.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Yea, think the only way you can create a shadow outside from an inside window is if he had a light on inside. If you watch just as shanann steps into the house her shadow appears in that same spot only darker.

        Like

  21. My thoughts.
    I don’t think this is the same shirt she was wearing.
    She was in a blanket in the earth for like 2 days. There would be no body fluids on the shirt. I don’t know if they had rain, at that time.
    The fabric looks different.
    Why is the two pictures of the shirt the cops have, showing a blue….then a brown, orange, purple one?

    Liked by 1 person

    • There might be body fluids on the shirt. When a person dies, after a few hours the fluids pool at the lowest parts – she was buried face down.

      Like

      • Yes I know the blood pools on the lowest points of the body.
        The blood does not come out. There might be fluid, blood from her ears, nose and mouth. Which would be dried.

        Like

  22. Donkey Kong.
    It’s a known fact that both Shanann and Frankie jr are liars. Chris I guess too, because he kept his fuck fest a secret.
    As for her parents, there selling Thrive like no tomorrow and making money of Shanan’s death.
    No shame there…. I must say.
    Watts parents making nothing of the killings and Chris in jail….ahhhh too bad…..lol
    I’m assuming Cindy and Ronnie and all of them saw All the pictures….why not…it’s their Daughter and their Son.
    If there was a trial, some of these pictures would also been shown. Along with death pictures.
    When you have Concrete Evidence, then respond. Otherwise go away.

    Like

    • SW parents, thrive, making money.. umm none of that is relevant to what I wrote.
      Everyone lies. But if you must compare, CW takes the cake in the lying department.

      Anyway Frankie saw something (that none of us have seen or have been told about) that definitively put CW in the guilty basket. I suspect his parents did too. That is concrete evidence as per SW father and Frankie at the court sentencing in front of the judge, cameras, lawyers and probably a good portion of the world watching. And also from CW parents at the court sentencing. Their speech also stated that they now had to apologize to the court for their previous behavior, now they had seen the truth. So much so that Cindy abruptly stopped her public crusade. Must have been very telling evidence for Cindy to go silent and apologise. And from there we can also imagine how big this evidence is because CW took the plea deal in the manner that he did.
      From that we can without a doubt say Chris got caught in action doing some of/part of or all of the crime. There’s a section in the discovery about vivint that’s sealed and I doubt if it ever will be released.
      Ps are you ok? I genuinely mean that..from your comments you are quick to swipe so I thought I’d ask

      Liked by 2 people

        • I am here to discuss and find new understanding regarding this crime, which Nicks site/work has done a fabulous job of. I have learnt so much here. I’m not here to argue or to be attacked.
          And I don’t need to be reported because I’m sure Nick can see each comment and will take action if needed. I was genuinely asking you if all is ok as you’ve been negative towards ppl and myself at times. No where have i made nasty comments, just tried to discuss the case and evidence. It would be good if we could respect what each other have to say and the differing of thoughts opinions , rather than turn it into swipey comments at the end of our posts. Suggesting I’m stupid isn’t productive either. I would like to continue learning about this case just like everyone else here.

          Liked by 4 people

      • You two seem to have a posting style conflict. Why not try ignoring each other? Here, no one is obligated to respond to/interact with everyone.

        Like

    • Frankie’s statement that Shan’ann was making 500K years before could have been based on what she told him, and which he believed.

      Of all the surviving victims in the Watts situation, my heart hurts the most for Frankie. I haven’t seen any lies that he told, although I haven’t seen all the videos nor read all of the discovery docs.

      He seemed very protective of his Dad, especially, and he could have even seen things on the videos that his parents didn’t see, as a way to protect them.

      Like

      • Ganana It is weird that Frankie made that 500k comment. I have no idea where or in what context he made it either as I haven’t read that part, only heard it.
        I feel the same as you, he seems to have been hit so so severely by this (as you’d expect).
        Frankie said he had to watch footage that was harrowing (CW taking the bodies out, that the public haven’t seen) on behalf of the family. I believe it was to identify the victims so that his parents didn’t have to. This is why Ive mentioned that vivint system control panel. I wonder if they’ll ever come out and say if/what that captured? Besides the emergency video on it, I wonder if the mic on it picked up anything incriminating as well.

        Like

        • Ivan , Are you a first time poster here.
          Is that your best.
          Coming on a site and making 1 (one) meaningless comment?
          Comment on the Case.
          Your comment means nothing to me.
          Wow.

          Like

    • “Donkey Kong.
      It’s a known fact that both Shanann and Frankie jr are liars. Chris I guess too, because he kept his fuck fest a secret.”
      Are you on some drugs or what???? Chris I gues too ..
      He lied in front of the camera, he lied the detectives, he lied everybody. And serious. He murdered ….
      Your posts are disrespectful and disgusting.
      You should be banned!

      Like

      • Ok….when you find a murderer out there who is willing to stand in front of a camera….Hey everyone I killed my family.
        Let me know.
        By the way, when you have something to say that hasn’t been said for months now.
        Let me know.
        Copying a comment and then responding the way you have…….is extremely immature.
        Is this your first murder case?

        Like

  23. This video footage being released makes me wonder if anything else, whether video, pictures, or information not previously seen, will be released now. Have the requests just been backlogged for open records or does the release mean some things have been changed from redacted to approved, not sure of the terminology?

    Like

    • From the Frankie comment about “the videos he saw” and Frank Sr. making that “took them out like garbage” comment, plus the fact that Mama Watts shut down the belligerence so abruptly, I am willing to suspect that there’s another video angle, like the same as this final Shan’Ann video, in which Chris could be clearly seen carrying bundles the sizes of his victims to the truck. Especially if the little girls were in black lawn-and-leaf bags (oversized heavy duty garbage bags). But I know all too well that it’s almost irresistibly tempting to incorporate such details while they’re still speculative for us. Because, c’mon, it just makes sense that he’d do that, right? Too much of this kind of assuming in the absence of evidence really weighs down the analysis procedure, because it directs the scenario in a particular way, thus directing it *away* from other scenarios, one of which may be the accurate one instead.

      It may be true! Until I can see this evidence via video or described in detail in official reports, I have to opt for an “I dunno” instead. Until the evidence is presented, those details I mentioned, while compelling, are not evidence in and of themselves. For example, Frank Sr. may have used the “like garbage” comment to describe the fact we all know, that Chris took the bodies out of the house to dispose of them, and nothing beyond that. The videos Frankie saw showed that Shan’Ann and the girls never left the house – maybe that convinced him. And maybe LeVel threatened to break Mama Watts’ kneecaps if she didn’t shut her fat yap. Who knows? Not I.

      Like

  24. In the discovery documents (pages 250-252), I found the handwritten notes from the coroner’s office, noting the clothing of Shan’ann and the girls. Shan’ann’s shirt was noted to be purple and white with a silver heart peace sign (AKA not the shirt she came home in). The girls were also noted to be pajama tops, but bottoms were not recorded.

    Like

  25. Also p. 109 on the chain of custody form “purple/white cotton body t-shirt with silver peace sign and heart design.” But isn’t it astounding the amount of red-brown dirt that was absorbed by the shirt? Or I should say thrown in on top, which provided a cover for three days. And it’s good on the chain of custody the shirt is referred to as a “body t-shirt”, which is probably a more apt description than “nightshirt” – which is an assumption or “nightgown.” In essence, it might have just been something that was grabbed quickly from a pile on the floor, the bedroom bench, or the back of a door on a hook. Or from under a bed pillow.

    Like

    • Also, if it was Chris who dressed her after the murder, that suggests he did not intend to dismember her and stuff her into the oil tanks as well. If so, he would have left the corpse naked so that he could “process” the body more quickly/efficiently.

      Like

      • Oh dear, Ralph.
        I don’t think he was going to chop her up.
        You almost need a chainsaw, or quite abit of time. The mess alone is Yukie.
        I think, given time he was going to either move her or rearrange the ground around her.

        Like

      • Ralph….you have to check this out.
        YouTube
        Feb 6.2019
        Shanann Watts… Leonard King.
        *The Catalyst*
        Extremely interesting. It answers ALOT of questions.
        Give me your thoughts.

        Like

      • Ralph.
        This guy SET the record STR8.
        On YouTube, he has some very interesting videos, other video I recommended.
        Alot of what he reports does answer some questions.
        I find it quite interesting.
        Maybe not for everyone, but……

        Like

  26. On August 25 2018. I Sent this to; Frankie Junior Rzucek.
    By me to his FB page.

    Without warning
    You left us without warning,
    Not even a goodbye,
    And I can’t seem to stop,
    Asking the question Why.,
    I didn’t see this coming ,
    It hit us by surprise,
    And when you left for Heaven,
    A small part of me died.
    Your smile could brightens anyone days,
    No matter what you were going thru,. I was here for.
    Everyday for the rest of my…..
    I’ll be missing you.

    Like

  27. The most heart-wrenching video in the whole of internet at the moment. She had her faults – obsessive, social-media addict, and a spender. Most of us have some of these faults. But, that’s not what I see here.. I see a bleary-eyed dreamer for whom a home is more than a house, a tired mother who wants to come back to her kids, a wife who despite her tribulations, nurtures the hope of rebonding via the to-be-born baby, and a struggler who is naive but yet diligent in the way she treats her job. The video is blatantly honest – no embellishment, no make up, nothing…. Chris killed the wife, the dreamer and the mother, and destroyed and humiliated million other mothers in the process.

    As I posted earlier, Chris was possibly more clueless than ruthless. I wish they play this video 24×7 on his cell TV, so that he gets to realize and drown in self-recrimination.

    Like

      • I am sure they did. Every single day, millions of dreams around the world are being shattered owing to various circumstances, but still there are certain boundaries that should not be breached. Killing one’s family is waaaaaay beyond that boundary (regardless of the circumstances). We can debate ceaselessly on society’s demarcation of right versus wrong, guilty versus innocent, good versus bad, but the reason why we are spending time discussing Watts and not the lioness that killed the lion in an Indianapolis zoo, is that as humans (unlike lions), we boast to have awareness of those boundaries. That consciousness differentiates us from the beasts.
        I do sympathize with the circumstances, but once the boundary has been breached, I have no more sympathies for the individual who crossed it.

        Like

  28. Okay, no Screaming at me.
    No Negative comments.
    Just snooping around.
    Shannan Watts….. Leonard King
    *The Catalyst*
    By, SET the record STR8…. YouTube.
    Form your own opinions, but alot of this does makes sense.

    Like

      • Lol, oh dear Nick.
        Thank you..
        I believe there is a pic of Shanann’s jeans and top and sweater on their bed, geeezs, one of his Videos. I forgot to write it down.
        PS, I’m trying to be nicer.
        I am a true Aries.

        Like

    • okay lets summarize those you tube videos you snooped around and found for us, Shannon.
      SW was a fat large boned pregnant woman carrying the baby of Chis#2, the result of a Leopard dress, who was actually drunk and wearing the wrong clothes and doesn’t match the neighbor’s doorbell video, so the newly released video that was obtained by CNN HLN must be a cover up to hide that SW was really drunk and killed her own children so she could get insurance money to pay the mortgage. Eek (eye roll). I borrowed Eek because I find it amusing.

      Like

      • K. I don’t what video you watched. Shanann is in leopard print dress standing with another thriver, a guy. She does not at all look pregnant nor drunk.
        As for Chris clothes, I have no idea what your talking about.
        I think you have the wrong Videos?
        This video has some pictures, but alot of printed words.
        Nothing you say, matches the video.

        Like

    • Shannon, in reply to your question about my summation of your you tuber, they are absolutely from the same video and also some other videos produced by the same Set the Record STR8, for example the video about the doorbell video is a separate video and the accusations of the Leopard dress you mention with Chris #2 are in another video as well as the one above, which you do acknowledge. They all follow the same path of delusions, much like the crackpot Armchair. At this point, I am really sorry to have even responded because I clearly see that it’s a waste of time. Take care and enjoy your aforementioned blunt.

      Like

      • K. You really are something else. Your a waste of time.
        As for these people on YouTube. I don’t know there reputations.
        Most of SET’s videos are true. I’ve read that stuff long time ago.
        Don’t respond to Any of my comments. Because, I will ignore you from now on.

        Like

  29. In regard to the apple iwatch – at the bank today I spotted a teller with an apple iwatch. I asked her (with a bit of a warm up first) if her heart stopped beating would her watch show when, or time of death? She said only if she purchased the heart rate app for her watch, and even then only if it was activated. I went back and read Ralph C’s guest post, which I found very interesting, where he suggests that if Baumhoven had accessed “all information” from her watch we might have known when Shan’ann’s heart stopped beating. Sorry if I misinterpreted, Ralph. But according to the bank teller she would first have to purchase that particular app, and then activate it. People use their iwatch for different things, one person I know uses it to record how much REM sleep or deep sleep he gets at night. I don’t know that Shan’ann would have wanted her heartbeats recorded and monitored but I thought I’d pass this information on. I assumed she was wearing it when strangled, and it’s not likely she removed it and put it between the couch cushions for safe keeping. We do know that her phone was turned off when found, but we don’t know when her heart stopped beating.

    Like

    • Hi Sylvester,
      I do not know how Apple has implemented it, but having worked on several similar technologies, there are two kinds of implementation:
      1. Collection side implementation: Where what gets collected is determined by the app entitlements.
      2. Server side implementation: Where everything gets collected, but how long they are stored and what’re presented to the users are dependent on their app entitlements.
      The second implementation has some additional collection and bandwidth overhead, but is simpler to implement and manage from the provider’s perspective, because only the server side needs to be updated, configured and managed.

      If Apple, Vivint et al have gone for the second model, the data will be all there.

      Like

      • Thank you Duttdip – I wonder what Shan’ann had. The woman I talked to indicated hers was a new Apple watch, and that she did not have an app that monitors her heart rate/beats. I get the impression it’s a new toy for most people since I mostly see 28 year olds with them (people who most likely aren’t using them for health reasons). Of course this young woman may not even know what capabilities her watch has and just likes the look of it. It’s a status symbol and a new toy.

        Like

      • That’s what my point was. The user – whether Shanann or the lady at the bank would not know whether everything is being collected, but only being made accessible based on what app they purchase.
        If everything was being collected by Apple, but only made accessible based on what app they purchase, then Apple would have Shanann’s data. If the LE subpoenaed, they would get the data.

        One of my hypotheses for the quick and sudden end to this trial was that the inner workings and mechanics of lot of these technologies would have come to the open, creating ethical debates (like the Facebook one) and educating future criminals to take precautionary measures.

        Like

  30. You would think, if the technology of the Apple phone in particular was made available to law enforcement, they wouldn’t be putting forth “I believe she was strangled in her bed” because she had no defensive wounds and neither did he. They would have something more accurate like when her heart actually stopped beating. Same to me goes for stomach contents. Perhaps the oil obliterated Bella and CeCe’s intestinal tracts but not so with Shan’ann. Even if Shan’ann’s last meal was a piece of fruit or a bag of peanuts something would be there. That would give an approximate TOD. With strangulation unconsciousness can occur within seconds with the right amount of pressure on the carotid artery, but there would be an initial struggle – no struggle if you are rendered unconscious to begin with but “going to sleep” if you feel pressure around your throat you struggle. I think he would have had to get her down on the ground from a standing position, or if she was seated, surprise her from behind. At any rate, I think it’s possible when they got as much information as they needed to convict, they needed no more?

    Like

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