Various sources confirm an unusual trait about Shan’ann – she had Obsessive Compulsive Discorder [OCD].
When Nickole Atkinson gave an interview to ABC, she was adamant that she knew something was wrong with Shan’ann because it wasn’t like Shan’ann to go somewhere without her car, or phone, or to leave the kids’ beds unmade [let alone her own].
Atkinson told ABC:
“The girls’ beds weren’t made [looks at the ceiling, then to her left]; Shan’ann was very OCD. Everything in her house had a place. Everything was labelled. If something was out of the ordinary, it was very out of the ordinary, for her…”
Shan’ann’s OCD is a big deal. It was a big deal to Nickole, and yet the term OCD appears only six times in the Discovery Documents, a relative rarity given how instrumental this was to Shan’ann’s personality, and identity.
OCD was largely who she was. It made her somewhat controlling, somewhat overbearing, somewhat regimented in how she ran her household, and in terms of scheduling her life and those around her – Shan’ann ran a very tight ship. But how much somewhat are we talking about here, really?
The combination of OCD and MLM is also central to the operative psychology of the Watts case. In September 2018 I dealt with this aspect in a post titled:
What impact did THRIVE have on Shan’ann’s marriage?
Of course it’s one thing to say someone is OCD [or a narcissist], it’s another thing to know what that means – to experience it. Nickole did, and we get a little sense of what she means by looking into Shan’ann’s pantry, and her home. But is it enough?
At the bottom of this post, Shan’ann’s Pinterest profile provides insight into the scale and scope of her OCD. You can see the size of it at a single glance.
But, as I’m often at pains to emphasize in my books, when it comes to personality traits and dynamics, we can’t be told what they are – we have to be shown them, we have to experience them – like the Matrix – for the truth to really resonate.
Before showing you though, the OCD aspect deserves a little tell, too.
Shan’ann’s OCD was likely rooted in anxiety primarily about her health problems. Shan’ann had other anxieties too, but her health issues were fairly significant. The OCD was thus a response – arguably an over-response – to control her environment. That environment included her spouse. Now here’s the rub. OCD can also be rooted in narcissism, and aggravated by narcissism.
The table below from psychcentral.com provides some cursory coverage of the difference between OCD + NPD [NPD = Narcissistic Personality Disorder] and vanilla OCD.
Notice the aspect at the bottom of the table:
No concern or empathy for how their OCD behavior negatively impacts others
When there is vanilla OCD on the other hand:
Constantly feels bad for how their OCD behavior impacts others
Thus far Shan’ann’s narcissism, especially as it relates to her OCD, has been completely missing from the media narrative, or any narrative surrounding this case. The accusations that Chris Watts’s narcissism stands alone, and is central to the murders rings hollow because we haven’t contextualized it: his narcissism compared to whose? Yours? Society’s? What about Shan’ann’s?
If we refer to Shan’ann’s social media, there are countless instances where she describes her husband as someone who does whatever she tells him to do. Shan’ann has no concern for how this makes him feel; it’s simply the way things work in their marriage, and he gets it, because he gets her. That’s great, except we can tell – intuitively – that over time being a pawn on someone’s OCD board game – even within a loving marriage – has to get old at some stage.
https://youtu.be/1M44hQ2Xls8?t=529
Narcissism is a popular catch-term in true crime now, dropped by all the big hitters – Nancy Grace, Dr. Phil, HLN and so on. And the more it is used, the more it gets reused.
Most of the folks using the ‘N’ word don’t really understand how narcissism works, and even less how it relates to true crime. They have a vague sense that’s it’s a particularly ugly form of conceit, and selfishness. And so I guess Chris Watts was a particularly conceited and selfish husband and father to do what he did. Well, except before he committed the crimes no one – especially not Shan’ann- would accuse Watts of being either conceited or selfish, in fact quite the opposite.
No one, naturally, wants to talk about Shan’ann’s narcissism. That would be distasteful, wouldn’t it? Victim blaming. But here at CrimeRocket we’re not trying to win a popularity contest, or trying to use the same catch-terms as the talk show hosts.
We’re here to find out what the fuck happened, and who these people really are, at least, that’s why I’m here. Now when I say this, I say it with the greatest of respect; if you’d rather talk about only certain aspects of a case, and feel uncomfortable talking about other aspects which you feel should be off limits, please fuck off and go be schizophrenic in your selective reality on your own time, somewhere else.
For the rest, let’s answer the question: is OCD related to narcissism, and if so, how so?
According to healthyplace.com:
The narcissist’s very pursuit of Narcissistic Supply is compulsive…[and] in many respects, narcissism can be defined as an all-pervasive obsessive-compulsive disorder.
So we see OCD and Narcissism are related, and that Narcissist Personality Disorder [NPD] actually exacerbates OCD. OCD and NPD aren’t the same thing however [a video at the bottom of this page explains how they differ]. But going back to additional reinforcing aspects from psychcentral.com’s table, we see there are some pretty ugly traits associated with OCD and NPD, especially exploitation, entitlement and arrogance.
How much of this is “evil” in the conventional sense of the word? In some ways, none of it is evil. It’s simply the habitual psychology of control, or the efforts at control, and how that is exerted is by putting the world [and people] into box, with nice neat labels on. The world is also reduced to timetables and schedules, along with everyone in them. So the OCD-Narcisisst may not be aware of the terror they unleash on the world in their efforts to control every conceivable aspect, they’re simply doing their thing trying to organize their shit.
On the other hand, is it okay for one person to exert a fucking tyranny over another? In that sense, it’s not evil, but it suggests there is a flagrant lack of self-awareness. In other words, do I realize that what I do habitually can cause pain to others, or do I simply not care?
Shan’ann’s nut meltdown is a good example demonstrating how difficult it may be to know where to draw the line between tyranny, OCD and common sense.
Which is it?
Shan’ann’s Pinterest profile below shows the extent of her OCD. Not all OCDs are created equal, just as there is a spectrum to narcissism and NPD. But clearly, sometimes OCD is on a vastly different scale to what could be considered “normal”.
The above profile comprises the following categories:
- Meal prep
- House Stuff [92 pins]
- Photography [54 pins]
- Exercise [54 pins]
- Party Ideas [16 pins]
- Tattoo ideas for Me [14 pins]
- Organize it [11 pins]
- Beauty
- Drink Anyone?
- Desserts [304 pins]
- Dinner is served! [273 pins]
- Breakfast
- Salads [47 pins]
- Appetizers and sides [71 pins]
- Sandwiches and burgers
- Food party ideas
- Snack ideas
- Soups and stews
- Dressings
- Pasta salads
- Gluten free desserts
- Workout
- Breads and Biscuits
- Marinades and dressings
- Bella [46 pins]
- Bahaha
- Good to know
- Lunch ideas
- Holiday baking ideas
- Valentines
- Love*
- Crafts
- Newborn pic ideas [12 pins]
- Smoothies
- German dishes [19 pins]
- Polish food [9 pins]
- Chicken dishes
- Ground Turkey Dishes
- Basement ideas [8 pins]
- Crockpot kinda Day
- Pork Dishes
- Bella’s 1st Birthday [70 pins]
- Kids activities [4 pins]
- Seafood dishes
- Kids playroom [23 pins]
- Mothers/Fathers Day [3 pins]
- Fathers Day [8 pins]
- Baby boy room ideas [46 pins]
- Man cave [2 pins]
- Pregnancy
- Halloween
- Thanksgiving
- Freezing food
- Italian food
- Thirty-One [82 pins]
- Outdoor patio
- Origami owl
- Dips [13 pins]
- Christmas
- Halloween Costumes
- Crafts with Kiddos
- Sensory Play [75 pins]
- Activities for 0-18 mo
- Gross motor skills play
- New Years party
- Super Bowl Party [20 pins]
- Girl room ideas [42 pins]
- Baby number 2
- Baby play
- Mexican food
- Motor skills play
- Girls Bathroom [12 pins]
- Easter
- Fine motor skills play
- Baby shower Girl [12 pins]
- Greek food
- Crafts to make with girls
- Healthy snack for kids
- Back exercises
- Keepsake ideas for kids
- Kids snacks
- Poppop to build
- Fondue
- 4th of July
- Bella’s 2nd Birthday
- Guest Room
- Dream closet GIRLS!
- Bathroom organizing
- Beef dishes
- Kids Keepsakes
- Reading nook
- 2 year old play
- Kids Science
- FMF
- Nails [59 pins]
- Fall
- Football
- Punta Cana
- Thrive Experience [0 pins]
- Instant Pot [25 pins]
- Organization Remodel Expert
- Wedding [220 pins]
*In the Love category, Shan’ann highlights various ways couples can express their love to one another, including 10 Ways to Strengthen Your Marriage, a Couple’s Appreciation Journal and 58 Creative Ways to Cheer Up a Love One. The category also includes The best days of our lives – plates with all the significant dates in a marriage. For Mother’s Day, that’s exactly what Chris Watts gave her.
Many have criticized Chris Watts for Googling when and how to say I love you. Such criticism is fine, as long as you compare it to the other side of the equation: Shan’ann and yourself.
Further reading: OCD and the Death of the Christian
Narcissism and the ensuing exertion of tyranny over one’s spouse, combined with the commodification of one’s children, is viewed by some experts (Searles, Peck) as being a form of soul murder and moral evil.
Hi, I know I’m late to the party, but why does anyone think he killed his daughters, she meets the profile so much more exactly, so many examples of munchausens by proxy here, show us the childrens medical records! Where is the premeditation in this case, where does Chris Watts show one iota of self protective behavior?
A polygraph, no attorneys in interrogation oh it goes on, her body position following rigor actually backs up his story, NPD women do kill their children, she reminds me of the late great (sorry just wistful thinking) Casey Anthony, he certainly doesnt, for one thing, Casey Anthony looks like a damned mensa candidate compared to him.
I think if our intrepid author takes this case back to the very beginning (a very fine place to start) stories will come out that change perception, oh and as for her family being so fabulous…uhm…didnt anyone find the peanuts and razor blades all over the Watts house contention by Shannans mother even slightly over the top?
You make an excellent point about m by proxy. Very intriguing.
Hi Kathleen,
You do make some interesting points, and you’re correct that Shan’ann does seemingly show a pattern of escalating behavior up to the murders. Perhaps even more so than Chris. I must admit I’ve made the Munchhausen connection in my head previously as well.
Another interesting pattern of behavior from Shan’ann: She repeatedly denies access to her children as a means to punish those who have wronged her.
-She denies Chris’ parents access during the infamous nut incident
-She cancels the gender reveal but secretly tells her friends. Declaring that Chris ”doesn’t deserve to know”
-She tells her friend that she will fight for full custody in the event of a divorce. By all accounts (even hers) Chris was a very attentive and good father prior to the murders, so why would she do this?
Its food for thought.
I have always felt she might have killed kids then him her. But with the phone movement logs, it’s hard to say. Cause I believe she was killed moments after entering the house.
As you say, you are very late, and it’s not a party. This “intrepid author” has written hundreds of blogs that went to the beginning. Maybe you should start there before recommending others do.
The autopsy did confirm EOE and a narrowed esophagus, which was what the reflux meds were for. The allergy testing was posted on Shan’anns fb page, they were in a physicians office and the child’s back was shown with positive allergic reactions covering it.
Working for an allergist and watching numerous scratch tests, this does not look authentic. There would be pen Mark’s in a straight line horizontically and numbered so you would know what allergen the child is reacting to since many tests are done at one time.
Again, I guess we can see why Chris would’ve been miserable, made to feel inadequate, which is hard for a man to swallow (this I know from experience) but we still can’t wrap our heads around WHY HE WOULDN’T JUST LEAVE OR GET DIVORCED AND YET CHOSE THE ULTIMATE ENDING WHICH DESTROYS HIS FAMILY…hoping one day we’ll know more
Because he saw no end to it if he simply divorced her and moved on with NK. He knew full well how vindictive she was ( her petty tyranny about the nuts on ice cream); he knew her vast Facebook presence; her pretentiousness with the over priced Primrose school; her likely poisoning his children against him for life, etc. He viewed her (rightly) as a narcissistic monster, and knew she would never allow him to be a father to his children.
That said, he should have spared the daughters and found someone better than NK who would love and accept them. And a good therapist and legal advocate to keep Shannan at bay. Guess he saw it as all too immense and costly? Or was there an accident with a child eating nuts? And the rest followed?
Did he kill them though? Where’s the proof? Yes he did dispose of them, people lose it and do incredibly stupid things with dead loved ones, just a couple years ago Prince Charles bff decided to store his wifes dead body in the closet for a few years, but since that went down in a 70million pound manse he got 10 days house arrest. And where is the proof CeCe was allergic to nuts? Where’s the proof on Lupus, where’s the proof that this is anything beyond a credulous idiot who believed every word his wife told him, possibly including the comment, yes I killed them, but they’ll believe me when I say it was you. As for killing her, he did it, people kill their spouses all the time. I posit this, find out who told Bella that her little sister could die anytime (babysitters testimony) and you find a psycho in the house.
He could not stand her anymore, I noticed that in their latest videos probably months before murders.
He hated her for promoting their lives and Thrive. They no longer had a private life, everything was out there public like it or not…
He looked to be pressured to be there next to his wife usually holding CeCe without saying anything.
You can just see on his face that he does not want to be there and where is that video when he had to let her put a mask on his face, then he was standing there like an idiot wtf…
I tough ” One day this man will explode like a BOMB” and there we go…
Nobody knows what is happening behind closed doors but I have a feeling that he stopped being interested in Shanann months before he started going with NK.
He never loved Shanann, he never loved anybody, not even his kids…He tough he does, but he does not know how to love, how do you feel when you are in love…He needed to google that ” WTF is he an ALIAN.
NK wanted him so bad, was all over him and he liked it. Free like a bird doing whatever he wants for 5 weeks he was loving his life( not knowing that this woman studied him and his family for 10 months before anything happened between them) ignoring his wife, playing with her mind, confusing her with what is going on with him while she was away ” He changed, he does not want this baby…”
I did not think that he was a Sociopath or Narcistic or whatever, I felt sorry for a man when I watched all those videos. He seems to be a loving father and husband until he did not commit these terrible, inhuman crimes against his own family.
The way he killed his pregnant wife that he could just divorce, is so so sad.
If only she knew not to get in that house alone if only she knew what was waiting for her behind those closed doors. As soon as she stepped in that house that once was so full of life became “The house of horrors”. In my opinion that house should be destroyed and they should build a Big Playing Park in Memorie of Shanann, Bella CeCe and Niko, for everybody who wants to come and visit there place, wouldn’t that be nice.
The way he killed his kids was SHOCKING, it was unbearable to listen.
The way he disposed of their bodies like they were trash and then pleaded for their safe return with a smirk on his face says a lot about what kind of Sick Unhuman Being he is.
Only Narcissist – Sociopath can do such thing…No tears, no regrets, no emotions, no remorse, no heart…
” I don’t know what happened??? I just lost it, never felt rage like that, I could not stop, it’s like somebody was holding like my hands and not letting them go “, ” She threatened me, that I will never see my kids again, they are my kids, my life…” BULSHIT
Just imagine you are fighting with your partner and want to separate because you don’t love him or her anymore and they say to you in anger that you will never see your kids again blah blah blah, so you then decide just like that to go and kill all of your Family. How Pathetic is that?
He had a chance to save his girls and call cops and say what happened and why did he kill Shanann and Niko, but NO he did not, because his life was more important than the lives of his kids.
It was obvious that he did not want any of them anymore, got sick and tired of them and it was time now to get rid of them and start a new life.
So very sad, how a person can destroy so many lives and still he does not want people to think that he is some kind of monster. Pathetic!!!
.
Hi Sabi, great and interesting reply. I read it with massive interest, ahh true crime is so fascinating, brings out our inner Sherlocks (mines the Will Farrell version but still). This case interests me because I,m interested in the lead up to the crime, like I am with the Mccanns, evil Kate and tool boy Gerry.-who btw reminds me of Chris Watts. I bring up the Mccanns in this because they are the two to beat for every other would be killer, don’t just walk on it, but get rich doing so, that’s why as you said, Watts wants to be well thought off-therin lies freedom, fame and fortune. Break bad, then break the bank..and do so while still getting rid of your problem relative. I think she drove him mad, maybe it wasn’t a long trip in his case who knows, but after the killing he then thought of the many, many other good looking white people who had done the same and not just walked on it but become much happier ( and richer) after doing so.
Cheers
Kathleen
Sabi – CW said that they used a PREGNANCY APP to get pregnant with Nico.
That means THEY wanted a baby, THEY were trying to have a baby, during the days or weeks before SW was pregnant. PP Regarding CW posing for those videos, yes he said he was uncomfortable, but he did it to help her business. He said that. He knew that if SW was successful, all of them would benefit, so he helped her succeed.
You are the only one thus far that I agree with. This hit the nail on the head and as for the Pinterest boards – that’s what pinterest is for. It’s not obsessively planning it’s an online mood board for different reasons. If you can honestly label a woman as Narcissist/OCD because of a Pinterest board then the entire Pinterest community needs to be. I completely agree with you and I do believe that he knew his children was were allergic. This thread is filled with Narcissist who either knew Chris and are going to extreme lengths to personally discredit the victim. This man was calculated and I remember seeing him on TV and I knew instantly that he did it. He literally fits the profile of any killer they go out of their way to be helpful then stupidly implicate themselves.
You do realize that he is an actual murderer. He killed the kids and a pregnant woman. He pleaded guilty to killing the kids. A normal person with empathy would have called an ambulance when their kid is unconscious.
There is no evidence that NK did not accept his kids, she just felt the kids needed time to adjust to the divorce. It shows his need for instant gratification a trait narcissist have. Plus he was lying about the baby to his mistress and not being the father.
There is even evidence of premeditation in that he ensured he would be alone at the oil fields. Placing the girls in oil tanks suggest trying to get rid of the incriminating evidence against himself not preserve evidence against wife, if she was the actual killer
Also his attempts at gaslighlighting during the initial contact with police and interviews shows he was a narcissist himself. His smirking and trying to hold back his smiles during the tv interview is disturbing. His lack of being able to anticipate that others would be concern over their disappearance shows the lack of empathy he felt for others. People cared about her and he just felt he could explain away their disappearance. Oh but he saw no way out? He had plenty of options. Maybe they were not optimal, but to kill two little girls and a pregnant woman only a monster does that. There is no greater good in his actions. Maybe her reaction to the nut incident was over the top but you know what I have a relative who is allergic to nuts and I am very mindful not to serve food with nuts when he is around. That is called empathy. For his mother to be lacking in empathy (Cece has to learn she cant have everything she wants or her way) shows how he was raised by a narcissist. Who blames a person for a medical condition.
They are so in debt and, with a third child coming, he would not be able to support himself. All of his money would go to, probably, alimony and child support. I cannot see Shan’Ann seeing his need for enough money to support himself. It would have been better to have just fled but not with NK
That would. Be going from the trying pan into the fire. Besides, she had already spoken with a divorce attorney back in the spring. She wasn’t happy either. No amount of shoes can make a person happy. It must have been nightmarish to see all that debt and have no control over it. I think she treated him awful.
Nick, your “please fuck off” comment as per some folk’s avoidance of certain aspects of this case is priceless. Gave me a good belly laugh and pretty much cured my Christmas hangover! Thanks!
I thought it would make the right people smile 😉
Lol, good for Nick! These people irritate the crap out of me !
The thing with narcissists is that they thrive (pun intended) on narcissistic supply. I grew up with a malignant narcissist mother, so I’m pretty well-versed in it. When you are no longer a source of constant admiration and ‘supply’, they have no use for you. Shanann’s facebook live sessions with her Thrivers were a perfect source of supply—a captive audience oohing and ahhing over her daily activities. Chris was also a supply source, a robot who complied with her demands. I’m wondering if there was additional abuse in Shanann’s past other than bullying. Where Casey Anthony lied to everyone else, Shanann constantly lied to herself.
Also, wow—that Pinterest page is insane. You really can see the depth and breadth of the obsessiveness! You have to think how much time was devoted to that—weeks, months, years. And it’s all ‘stuff’. Many categories are labelled as “ideas”, but of course these ideas cannot be realized without purchasing something to make it happen.
Sidenote: Coincidentally, my NPD mother drank herself to death 4 years ago today at 62. She was so toxic that I had to go no-contact. I hadn’t spoken to her in 15 years and didn’t even know where she lived (she moved around quite a bit to different states). Narcissists don’t do well when they age.
“weeks, months, years”?
Do you use Pinterest?
It takes one second to right-click, and save it to your page.
Feeling sad for you, AC, with personal experience & empathy to all who have met up with 1 or several who are mired in the grip of alcohol, nicotine, other addictions, OCD, NPD, depression, et al. I’m spent yet determined to evict toxic people from my life. I feel seriously sad that these character traits, toxins, illnesses, etc., take & keep beautiful people from us, but they do. Keep on keeping on, in wellness. With compassion & sympathy for all, the hurters and the hurt.
I think it’s no coincidence that she didn’t think she had anything to do with Chris’s distancing himself and coldness from her. Many of these disorders go untreated because the very nature of them is the person thinks their behavior is normal – and don’t understand how it impacts the lives of others around them. Now she could have gotten a clue – shutting people out of your life – like the grandparents of your children and the parents of your spouse and whatever happened in marriage #1 and how his parents interacted with her. Had they divorced or gone to counseling, it wasn’t going to be all about him – it would likely have been pressed upon her that she contributed to their dynamic. Might have taken years though. It was already affecting Bella – the video of the vision board and her hammering of poor Bella to get it right was sad.
“hammering”? That is a dreadful exaggeration.
“Might have taken years though. It was already affecting Bella – the video of the vision board and her hammering of poor Bella to get it right was sad.”
Hence, his despair of a normal solution. I believe he thought she’d do a lot of harm to the children and also poison them against him, which is likely.
The blame the victim mentality is disconcerting. The same people who do not want to throw the narcissist word around to describe Chris Watts have no problem using it to describe Shan’ann Watts. What was it the next door neighbor said that when she was in North Carolina he and his wife thought CW might have done something to her then because when they fight “he gets crazy”. Here is one person with a not so positive opinion of CW. Also her friend knew right away so the signs were there.
I haven’t seen anything in the facebook posts that suggest he had no other options or that she was abusive to the children. The fact that many people go on facebook to project an image although fake is a reflection of many in today’s social media obsessed world. It is sad and fake but not a reason to hate someone enough to murder them or victim blame them.
Even his parents came around and stated at the sentencing that they know that it was all him. Here is part of their statement read at the sentencing
“We are not here to ask for leniency, we are not in any way condoning or tolerating the crime that has occurred and the“ They accept that their son has done this… they accept that he chose to plead guilty,” she stated. “They appreciate that he is given the opportunity to serve that life sentence. It is his responsibility, it is his sentence, and it is not enough to make up for what [he] has done.”
“There is nothing that can be done to cure the harm he has caused.”
The spokesperson said the parents of Chris Watts encouraged him to give a full confession, to help ease the pain and suffering of the victims’ families, but stated that nothing he could say would explain his behavior. pain that has been caused,” she stated. “We join in our daughter-in-law’s and grandchildren’s family in saying this should never have happened.”
He had options and he can begin atoning for what he has done by giving a full confession. But he is a narcissist and a coward and he will not.
Chill already! You OCD people are so touchy.
I agree she didn’t have TRUE obsessive-compulsive disorder.
She had a desperate need to control her husband and children to a pathological degree, and she kept the visible areas of her home neat and tidy.
That’s not OCD.
Great article. The fuck off is Good.
Basically Shanann drove Chris crazy and there would be no way to deal with her in A Seperation/divorce. She was too complicated and complex. She herself said she couldn’t handle 3 kids. She couldn’t handle the 2…..by herself. In his mind, he figured all the Wrong in his marriage, thinking now and the future and figures it’s better to get rid of his problems……forever.
I thought when I first saw all her Video’s, there is something wrong with her, now with all these Amazing Articles and some excellent comments. You see everything so differently.
No wonder he wanted out. It’s like a bomb waiting to go off.
I agree Shannon. And I believe that Chris saw her trying to alienate the girls from him. Parental Alienation is real . There was the video of Cece biting Chris and Shannan laughed it off. That is a behavior problem that should not be dismissed. Like you Shannon, I have learned much from this site and the insightful commenters here.
Marie, thank you.
I know I saw all the Videos. Some were just heartbreaking to me. Some were just sickening. The poor girls were probably so confused, always shunned into their rooms, crying whinning being ignored. Chris being treated the way he was.
One thing you never see is friends or family visiting. I don’t really think they had true life long friends. Maybe because of her. I had said earlier I never seen any person like Shanann before, her ways. I’m pretty blunt and not one to shy away. If she was in my life I would have spoken to her. I would have tried to help them. Which I’ve done before, but you no what….they didn’t take the help, so I walked away. Too toxic and negative for me. But no one died.
This is not credible information, it’s sourced this from psychology today / psy Central and while they mean well the site is geared more toward clickbaity articles. by no means is it an academic journal and you really need to double check and make sure any content from their article base – before taken at face value- is being sourced from references provided in the articles that back them with empirical support . Articles lacking contemporary sources or comprised of 95% speculation without citation are at best risky and at worst will eventually get flagged and removed moving forward – sure, there are some seasoned professionals who write for them, but also a lot of goofballs. Hard to tell the difference if you’re not familiar with the literature or clinical phenomenon.
* note this particular article he is citing listed zero sources (academic or otherwise) and was not written by a doctor but a mental health counselor from a Christian ministry in Florida. I usually find your work very insightful, I like the to read your stuff which is why I’m writing. Putting out information like this just detracts from your credibility and I’d like to see you keep up the good work.
I think it makes logical, empirical, common everyday sense that control freaks, hypochondriacs , and narcissists – which Shannan surely is – lack empathy or regard for those they manipulate and tend to parent badly and in general make bad spouses.
We need no expert to tell us that she has these traits: they are on full display in her videos, and in her behavior to her husband, children, and in-laws. She herself admits she is OCD.
Absolutely agree. It just doesn’t seem plausible that he would kill them all for a 5 week affair. There was something much deeper going on in that house. When I saw the police video of the first day they were missing, I immediately noticed how perfectly straight the house was. Even though she had been away and he had two kids running around. I can imagine him stressing about having everything neat and orderly when she gets home or else. That would make anyone snap. Having that break from her for 5 weeks where he had a chance to be free fom the ocd probably made him very aware of what he was missing in life. Then she comes back, demanding he show her affection when he clearly doesn’t feel it anymore and then expects him to read a self help book. I would’ve thrown that book in the trash also.
Only dumb ignorant bitches and simpletons can sympathize and defend baby killers such as CW.
narcissists – which Shannan surely is – lack empathy or regard for those they manipulate and tend to parent badly and in general make bad spouses.
I think that it’s because they’re focused so intently and exclusively on *themselves* that others’ needs and situations don’t even make it into their awareness. It’s all about THEM.
Hiya Ralph! Well said as usual, here,s a thing I wonder was S ( I simply cannot manage the spelling sigh) OCD? Her office is the only room in the house that wasn’t hospital quality sterile. He seems more OCD in terms of cleaning. As for labeling everything, well that might be more shopaholic-which she def was then OCD, dunno. What I do know is that Nicole Atkinsons version of OCD might be say a lower bar, you know like taking out the garbage once a week? One woman,s OCD is another woman’s, oh crap did I brush my teeth this week?
Right.
She doesn’t Think the problem is Her.
She thinks it him with the problem. So she wouldn’t even focus on what she’s done or been doing.
Wrong.
She repeatedly asked him what she could do, what was she doing wrong. It’s in her texts to him.
Yes she asked him. But he was done.
Hi Shannon, I think he was done as well and trying to avoid being hammered ( emotionally speaking) when leaving someone who demands you stay, you have to be creative, he wasn’t, an update on Paul Simon’s 50 ways is needed here. What he should have done ( and this is just good advice for anyone) is first announced he was gay, but that conversion therapy was out because not just gay but with an unfortunate attraction to male marine mammals, then you start wearing a foil hat and I mean everywhere! Should the object of ones no longer desire still insist on counseling, you start a social media page dressed as a marine mammal and begin openly speculating that you are now pretty sure that people misjudged Hitler and you are saying this because you now see you were hitler in a previous incarnation. And as a full on backup stop bathing and brushing your teeth. If only Watts had been given such tips he,d be divorced and good ole Nichole would have dumped him too, win, win.
I’m sorry. Did you happen to read the Garbage you just wrote.
“She repeatedly asked him what she could do, what was she doing wrong. It’s in her texts to him.”
Oh, right. And someone like *Shan’Ann* – in the context of her relationship with Chris – would have actually *been receptive* to any criticism. You trying to sell me a bridge in Brooklyn??
He’d already have understood by now – completely – that you never cross a narcissist. Because they play with knives.
Ha again, another classic! You are so right Ralph ( a nom de guerre, you might consider btw) yes let’s look at S,s acceptance of criticism. “I didn’t put no dagger between you and your dad.” Testy, testy, as for discussing accusing his mother of attempted child murder, well erm…yeah right. Moving on, does anyone remember her saying in texts, “he says it isn’t me.” I bet he did, when she asked she expected just one answer, “no way baby it’s not you its me.”
Like several here, I believe Shan’ann’s obsessiveness/narcissism, for the most part, blinded her to its destructive effect on Chris and the children. It’s as if she existed in a hermetically sealed alternate reality (e.g. the Pinterest labyrinth of idealized living) that was impervious to the progressively encroaching reality of deteriorating finances and familial relationships. In the last few weeks and days of Shan’ann’s life, her emails and letters to Chris demonstrate this disconnect, because she genuinely seems surprised, confused, and profoundly sad about Chris’s aloofness and determination to separate. I know some attribute Shan’ann’s surprise and resulting despair to Chris’s covert nature, his hiding thoughts and emotions from Shan’ann. To some extent I believe this is true; however, I also think Shan’ann’s self-involvement, rigidity. and intolerance of others’ needs, their very humanity, enabled, perhaps even exacerbated, Chris’s introversion, because he didn’t want to suffer the consequences of disrupting/defying her finely ordered universe. Moreover, to live in Shan’ann’s rigidly ordered world, HER home, I believe Chris had to retreat deeper within himself to preserve some semblance of his own unique personhood. During the course of the marriage, I believe Chris’s increasingly acute interiority created a disconnect from Shan’ann’s world to the extent that Chris appeared to be perfunctorily going through the motions of being a husband to Shan’ann and a father to Bella and Celeste (as observed in several videos). Just as Shan’ann’s disconnect and self-aggrandizement overwhelmed her family’s emotional needs (e.g. the Grinch Christmas where the family is in thrall to Shan’ann’s insistence on choreographing it), so did Chris’s disconnect and need to reclaim his own humanity finally overshadow his family’s lives, especially the person he viewed as his primary keeper and tormentor, Shan’ann. Given Chris’s habitual introversion and fear of Shan’ann, murdering her along with HER children may have emerged as a logical, if not the only, pathway to his freedom. Although there were certainly other motivations (e.g., finances and an intense love interest) that caused Chris to annihilate his family, I believe his progressive detachment from his own feelings for them enabled him carry out their murders.
We are attracted to the case for many of the same psychological reasons that drove both Shan’ann and Chris Watts. Their attempt to manufacture a “perfect life” or the appearance of a fairy tale, juxtaposed with the underlying nightmare is why it’s so disturbing. On some subliminal level I believe we are intrigued and troubled by this. We don’t know why, we just know that there’s some warning, some danger in this drive to perpetuate a fairy tale when the reality is different. The truth is, all of us are guilty of embellishing our respective realities. When it gets to the scale of living a lie, it can and eventually will lead to disaster.
Agreed. On the macro level, our (America’s) historical, narcissistic, and fantastical belief in its own Manifest Destiny, in its own exceptionalism, is in fact the foundational lie that enabled our current cultural and political demise—the overarching context in which the Watts’s fantasies festered into lies and their ultimate destruction.
Well said Nickvdl.
I just watched the documentary and from the beginning said Shanann was extremely vain and probably treated her man with disrespect without ever knowing it.
I just wished he would’ve told her the truth about how she was as a person and how he felt, so those little girls would be alive right now.
Very nice Cheryl.
Thank you, Shannon.
WOW.
I hope you’re not a relative or my neighbor.
I thought that was a really good point, I,ve always thought that Watts remark to her ( according to her texts) that it was nothing she,d done it was all him was pretty astute-on his part. Only someone looking to be followed around both electronically and physically is ever enough of a masochist to say to a high conflict, ego driven sort, it might be you not me. I think that Reeva Steenkamp might have made that error.
Say they aren’t armed and dangerous, it’s still a horrible idea.They won’t take it well, you,ll be sorry, years ago a friend of mines, hilarious nutcase of a narcissist mother burned down the house, it was an accident, but an avoidable one, when Christy asked her if she didn’t think that hoarding and starting fires in a non working fireplace wasn’t a mistake, her mother reasonably responded by telling Christy that only someone who was schizophrenic would ask a question like that. Then she followed it up by sending mental health advisories for years and discussing her daughter’s issues with all her Facebook friends. I think the phrase it’s not you its me was invented in defense of these somewhat sensitive types 😀
Nick, I,m sorry if I offended you, I meant it as a compliment and I like the books. I,m actually hoping that your work will help this not pile up as one of the great hopeless cases, Ramsey, etc. I hate them, and they tend to proliferate, if you were interested in writing more about Zahau I,d turn over 2000 pages of police files to you because somebody somewhere should tell the whole truth about how a little boy and a young woman were killed, and just exactly how much the police investigate murders, close no matter what is a motto and a sickening one, Natalie Wood had 6 different autopsy reports, someone should speak for the dead, but in the Watts case, maybe someone can help the living and you look like it, intrepid’S a compliment, you have to be, because there’s always sifting and it’s tedious as Hell. You don’t seem like a writer whose looking for quick answers, you seem to actually want to know. Succeed where I,ve failed so badly, prove what happened to them, ( okay failed to say it or write it, I,m scared of their money) but you can with Watts, there’s no billionaire, there’s no seriously powerful ( former Ruby Ridge fed now a sherriff). This could go to criminal and justice not just civil. But I don’t apologize for the use of the word party, let’s not lie to ourselves, though I guess circus is better, I mean, remember the 24 hour news cycle on George and Cindy Anthony,s fucking lobster dinner? Well now we have Chris Watts brownies from the commissary sigh,
Again sorry if I annoyed you, tact can get eroded in the dark, slimy, never fair world of these big cases, not that I had much to begin with.
Cheers
Kathleen
I think everything Chris watts did was a firm of narcissism. That’s why you see a murder here of 2 innocent children. We’ve seen mothers and fathers, over and over display the same characteristics when they slaughter their family, namely children in this case. Example, watch clips with diane downs, then watch then with chris watts. They actually almost resemble each other in the way he has no pain and the duping delight is out of control. She only managed to have one victim but the similarities in their behaviors just totally convinces me of just how horrible he is. Now the world takes sympathy when there should be none, claims she’s abusive. I’m done with these crime rocket articles.
I just read on Diane Downs. I see No similarity between these two cases.
Hi Samantha, I know TC is upsetting and I was a big Ann Rule fan too and read Small Sacrifices, but how is Chris Watts like Diane Downs, that girl was a complete nut who shot off guns, ran some lunatic fake surrogacy program, burned down her own home, threatened homicide and suicide, had a sick relationship with a sick family, stalked a man, caused everyone she worked with to avoid her, and had a long history of abusing and neglecting her children, and spent years trying to become famous, long before she finally killed, basically a narcissistic text book case, most, if not all of them are grandiose, can’t hold a job, have no friends, no education ( Bundy and Macdonald and Kate McCann being exceptions as there always are, though 2 out of those 3 didn’t work either). That epic loser married to Susan Cox Powell who slaughtered her was yet another huge failure who thought and acted like he was a rock star, where is any of this in Watts background? Humans, sheesh a strange unpredictable lot, and yet…there are usually some flags on the way for child killers, excessive self love, posturing, excessive spending, feelings of grandiosity, based on, well nothing, quick to lose their composure/temper, sometimes there is Munchausens, or by proxy, and again, he doesn’t meet the criteria, as for spousal killing, very, very sadly that doesn’t have much in the way of predicators beyond a lousy marriage, I don’t think Clara Harris was a psycho I think she lost it, that happens, it’s horrible but true. Child killing…well that’s a special kind of horrible and I don’t see where he hated his girls, put them through surgeries and testings and hospitalizations over and over or neglected them or made fun of them, I love you on Facebook is an utterly garbage way to show love or attention, in fact it shows a pathetic objectification, and objects are often destroyed.
“excessive self love, posturing, excessive spending, feelings of grandiosity, based on, well nothing, quick to lose their composure/temper, sometimes there is Munchausens, or by proxy, and again, he doesn’t meet the criteria”
Shan’Ann certainly did.
Hi Ralph, well geez, ever since the 2nd confession, I have decided that I have really poor judgement, I,ll be honest, I thought she looked possible on the girls. I thought she was MBP and that maybe…well anyway I can see I,m not going to be quitting my day job for a position at the psychic network anytime soon. One thing though I don’t know if I buy the 2nd confession…but now I sound totally out there. Yikes!
You’re right not to buy the second confession. Some details of the first and second confession are true, though I’d argue the most important aspects aren’t true.
Ahh sure and tis certain Nick, that it’s the very divill ye are! For as I said in my reveiw of book 6 you,re making us wait! Sigh, and yes on a serious note…if those dunderheads investigated more carefully, people would shrug off every specious word Watts said, instead 2 men from other countries, you and old Sherlock (AD) seem to be the only people on earth not looking to that sad sack liar for the truth, so I,ll wait to see what you come up!
This guy was a predator that was out to destroy as many women as he could because he hated his mother. He had no personality so he would mirror his victims to make them think they had a lot in common. They’re pathological liars and always play the victim. If you feel sorry enough for them to take the bait, then you become their next victim. Their love game begins again so they can slowly suck away all your energy and happiness leaving you feeling worthless before they discard you. They’re actors that see humans as objects or tools. They love nothing or no one. You never existed just like Ariana Grande’s song “Thank You, Next.” My father was one and the three relationships that I was in. Malignant narcissists are dangerous! Female malignant narcissists, like Asia Argento, are out to destroy men because they hate their fathers. It’s a scary world!
The guy was a predator.
Very wrong.
It’s not a character flaw to maintain order, be inspired and categorize ideas.
Well that depends. It’s subjective. To a very messy person who enjoys organized chaos and freedom, excessive order is going to feel excessive, and vice versa.
All of that is good and well – BUT he killed his 2 babies…so that kind of wipes out anything Shanann did or didn’t do.
Shanann’s actions did not cause him to kill his own babies – she didn’t push him over the “edge” – he’s a psycho
Hi Brit, you raise a thing that interests me. Do we become better than we were if we’re dead? If so that doesn’t seem to be across the board. And does death absolve all your actions while here? Of course Watts is a child killer and that’s the worst you can do. But does death wash us all clean? I mean I’m Catholic and there’s washed in the blood of the lamb, I know but if no matter who we are if we get killed are we saints, do we all go to Heaven, crap is Jim Jones there? Worse does that mean Trump will be there? 😬
That little chart linking up OCD and NPD has helped me understand a family member that, though the person would never undergo therapy, suits them perfectly.
For example, I survived a crime that police considered the worst of that year.
The therapist I had met her a couple times in person and spoke on the phone a few times.
My therapist remarked, “your sibling is so mentally sick, he or she would rather it was he or she who was kidnapped, thus getting attention.,”