On the night of August 14, CBI agent Greg Zentner was dispatched to Boulder to interview the most crucial witness in the Watts case. The transcript below is an excerpt from a 72 page document spanning 3223 lines of text.
CrimeRocket is the first to reproduce and analyze this critical transcript in-depth. The entire transcript has been broken down into 15 sections.
The fourth part includes:
Nickole’s concerns and suspicions when Watts arrives and immediately ducks into the garage
Watts strange entry into the house
The audio for the above transcript is available here.
The fifth part deals with Nickole’s impressions inside the house/crime scene in more detail.
At 02:57 in the clip below, right at the beginning of the interview that preceded the polygraph, Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent Tammy Lee tells Chris Watts:
“You know if you did have something to do with their disappearance, it would be really stupid for you to come in and take a polygraph. [Laughs]. It would be really dumb.”
And so Chris Watts takes the polygraph, fails, and then goes on to confess largely because of the failed test.
There’s no doubt stupidity does play into the criminal psychology [and psychopathy] here, just as it did in the Scott Peterson case. And probably, elements of vanity and narcissism exacerbate [or inflate] this self-perceived sense of mastery [over others and one’s world].
But there has to be another aspect that accounts for the incredible poor levels of intuition going on here. Does being dumb lead to poor perception skills, or do poor perception skills drive dumbness?
Here’s a clue, and it’s one than can impact all of us.
What the Dunning Kruger effect suggests is the less we know, the more we think we know and tend to over-estimate our chances. On the other hand, the more we know, the more modest we tend to be about what we think we know.
In a criminal case, a criminal – like Chris Watts or Scott Peterson – may believe they know a great deal more about their crime than anyone else. Further, especially if there is premeditation and an extensive and elaborate effort to dispose of evidence [and the human remains], this sense of overconfidence is likely to be exaggerated.
It helps, in these circumstances, for the cops to play dumb, and to not reveal what they know. In both the Chris Watts and Scott Peterson cases, the cops knew about the affairs some time before the criminals knew that the cops knew.
But there’s another dimension to the criminal psychology that goes beyond all of this. It’s like the coldness of a psychopath but it’s not quite the same thing. Any person can become numb or unfeeling to someone else after a season of lying, duplicity and deceit. This behavior creates disconnection, and the murder is the final leg of that journey. It’s the final disconnect. In order to get to that place, the murderer becomes “standoffish” not only towards his intended victim, but to many others [close to the victim] as well.
In effect, the murderer is preparing himself for what would otherwise be a somewhat traumatic event. Murder can be traumatic. But if the murderer is sufficiently imbued with a sense of self, and a disconnected sense of self, then it’s less difficult. Of course, following the murder, this disconnectedness is what the world sees and sees immediately something is very wrong [because this person close to the victim doesn’t show the right emotion – because he’s disconnected himself…]
At 13:30 in the clip below, Forensic Psychologist Dr. Keith Ablow describes the mental process behind Scott Peterson’s less than credible acting.
ABLOW: I think Scott Peterson knows he is putting things over on people, or attempting to. The trouble is, because he can’t connect – he can’t feel your emotions, or his own [in terms of Laci] – he’s in a very tough spot as to lying effectively. But Scott Peterson thinks he’s very resourceful. No doubt he thinks people believe him when they don’t at all.
On the night of August 14, CBI agent Greg Zentner was dispatched to Boulder to interview the most crucial witness in the Watts case. The transcript below is an excerpt from a 72 page document spanning 3223 lines of text.
CrimeRocket is the first to reproduce and analyze this critical transcript in-depth. The entire transcript has been broken down into 15 sections.
The second part includes:
Confirmation that their flight was supposed to land at 23:25. It arrived instead at 12:45.
Shan’ann’s neck was really bothering her [this may have been why she felt out of sorts].
According to Nickole the doctor’s appointment was at 09:00.
Shan’ann expected get three hours sleep on Monday, from 02:00 until 05:00 [05:00 was the time Ceecee woke up].
Chris Watts first version of how the girls and Shan’ann had left the house was to Nickole, telling her “a friend must have picked them up or something…”
Nickole called Watts three times before he answered at approximately 12:27.
According to Nickole, Deeter had been “caged”, something they usually did when everyone left the house.
The audio for the above transcript is available here.
The third part includes Nickole’s explanation for why she called the cops when she did.
The fifth book in the TWO FACE series is the most voluminous and in-depth yet. With each successive narrative we not only get to know all the characters and players more thoroughly, we’re also able to sketch and color the context of the crime in increasingly vivid detail.
5 months after the murders, and despite unrelenting and focused research, we’re still in the process of getting to know the criminal psychology of Watts himself. Although our understanding is definitely more intimate today than it was before Christmas, to feel our way to the real people, real motives and real circumstances of this unique case has clearly taken time and effort, and though we’ve made substantial progress, we’re not quite there yet.
True crime research is strange. With more information new questions and possibilities arise. Inevitably the basic arc of what we know [and the why] shifts perceptibly forward, but frustratingly, some simple answers remain frustratingly out of reach.
Please note if you wish to stand in the running to win the 5th book please begin your comment with: #Kindle. If you have never read a Kindle book, don’t have an Amazon account or don’t know how to download or read a book on Kindle, please don’t use #Kindle in your comment because you won’t be able to claim/download/read the book.
Some of the questions asked and answered [and in some exceptional cases not answered] in DRILLING FOR DISCOVERY include the following:
1. Why did Nickole Atkinson go to 2825 Saratoga Trail in the first place on Monday morning? There are two reasons to this answer, one of them obvious, but the other is not very well known.
2. What shoes did Shan’ann Watts wear on the airplane? Motivate your answer.
3. Name three locations for the girls’ shoes that appeared out of place on August 13.
4. When was the first time Watts was asked whether he [or Shan’ann] was having an affair, and who asked him?
5. When did law enforcement become aware that Watts was likely having an affair with a co-worker?
6. When did Nichol Kessinger speak to the cops for the first time?
7. Who found Shan’ann’s purse, when and where was it?
8. The colored object on the left hand side in the drawer beside the bed in the master bedroom, is it a kid’s toy or anal beads?
9. When Watts was asked to suggest various ways of making someone disappear, which answer tied in directly with the way/circumstances surrounding how this crime was committed?
10. The District Attorney believes the children were smothered. Were they? Did Chris Watts confess to smothering his children?
The degree of difficulty for these questions is tougher than for the last quiz. The winner will be selected on Sunday 27. Only one comment per user is allowed.
TWO FACE DRILLING THROUGH DISCOVERY will be available before the end of January.
On the night of August 14, CBI agent Greg Zentner was dispatched to Boulder to interview the most crucial witness in the Watts case. The transcript below is an excerpt from a 72 page document spanning 3223 lines of text.
CrimeRocket is the first to reproduce and analyze this critical transcript in-depth. The entire transcript has been broken down into 15 sections.
The first part includes:
Shan’ann waiting outside the house on the porch for Nickole to pick her up [so as not to wake the children]
Nickole’s concern and suspicion around Shan’ann’s purse
Nickole’s first text to Shan’ann on Monday August 13 was at 08:43 and again at 08:55.
The audio for the above transcript is available here.
The second part includes Nickole’s reason for going to the house in the first place.
There is something heartbreaking and mournful about a grave and a graveyard. It has an inevitable, unbreakable, unreachable, suffocating, claustrophobic permanence about it, doesn’t it?
The the area that was green and bursting with summer when they were buried is brown, grey and forlorn today.
The area in front of the gravestone has a Merry Christmas appeal to it, given the red and silver bows interspersed with the green.
It should be noted on the tombstone that Shan’ann’s name is spelled Shan’ann [the same convention followed by this blog and the narratives surrounding it]. Almost six months after her tragic death, even her staunchest defenders, as well as numerous media pundits still can’t get the spelling of her name right.
With that being said, while Shan’ann’s name on the grave is correct, the spelling of her unborn son’s name is incorrect. Incorrect because in Shan’ann’s own text messages she repeatedly used “Niko”.
Shan’ann used this spelling as recently as the last completed day of her life [August 12, 2018] in a message meant for her husband [sent to Addy Molony at 21:13]:
Shan’ann confirmed the same spelling on August 9th at 21:12 in a message to Nickole Atkinson and Cassie Rosenberg.
When it takes this long to get the kindergarten stuff right in a high-profile true crime case, it’s no wonder it’s so difficult for a society to ever get to grips with far deeper darker and more complicated questions – like why.
In the clip below there’s a touching moment at about [1hour38] where Kessinger bursts into tears. She cries for almost a minute. For my part I was touched by her tears and obvious sadness, and sympathy for the children.
Many will sneer at that. So what – I can hear some saying – if Kessinger showed emotion? Or her emotion isn’t real etc. For my part I find it quite touching. Of all the folks involved in this case, this moment seems to be filled with with a great deal of remorse. We see some of the same grief in Shan’ann’s father Frank, especially when he appears in court, but in very few others.
There was some grief in Cindy Watts when she was in court. And a little by Watts himself that same day.
Grief is a redeeming quality. In true crime, wherever we see grief there are authentic human connections and emotions. Real grief overcomes bullshit and bullshit semantics. Real grief means there is contrition after the crime has been committed. But that’s what makes the moment immediately following Kessinger’s tears so gut wrenching.
They spoke for 111 minutes a few hours before Shan’ann was murdered. It’s also possible this crucial 111 minute conversation took place after Watts murdered both his daughters. And yet Nichol Kessinger says she can’t remember what they spoke about.
If Kessinger herself truly wants to know why, and wants to understand why, then because of the timing of that final conversation, crucial conversation, the contents matters greatly. What was his mood? What did they talk about? What were their plans?
During Chris Watts’ first interrogation with the FBI he’s shown a color photograph of Bella and Celeste. The photo appears red in the CCTV footage of the interrogation.
Can you find the original among Shan’ann’s Facebook images?
The True Crime Guru Badge goes to tbp with this image:
Can anyone source it from Shan’ann’s social media [location and date]?
18 minutes before Nick Thayer’s text – sent from the parking lot of the Frederick Police Department – Watts handed over his phone to the FBI. Watch that moment here.
This means Thayer’s text came through when Watts no longer had his handset with him. It was the best advice he ever got, from anyone. Approximately an hour after giving up his phone, and half an hour after Thayer’s text, Watts had already consented to give a polygraph.
In POST TRUTH, the 100th True Crime Rocket Science [TCRS] title, the world’s most prolific true crime author Nick van der Leek demonstrates how much we still don’t know in the Watts case. In the final chapter of the SILVER FOX trilogy the author provides a sly twist in a tale that has spanned 12 TCRS books to date. The result may shock or leave you with even more questions.
SILVER FOX III available now in paperback!
“If you are at all curious about what really happened in the Watts case, then buy this book, buy every one he has written and you will get as close as humanly possible to understanding the killer and his victims.”- Kathleen Hewtson. Purchase the very highly rated and reviewed SILVER TRILOGY – POST TRUTH COMING SOON.
TCRS MERCH available now – just in time for Christmas!
Book 5 – ALL NEW! “I have thoroughly enjoyed this audiobook…” – Connie Lukens. Drilling Through Discovery Complete Audiobook
Read the entire 9-Part TWO FACE series, the most definitive book series covering the Chris Watts Case
Visit the TCRS Archive of 100 Books dealing with all the world’s most high-profile true crime cases.
Join the TCRS Community on Patreon for as little as $1 per month. Multiple daily posts, interesting discussions, amazing audiobooks narrated by the author, ongoing series and powerful, informative weekly podcasts.
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Book 4 in the TWO FACE series, one of the best reviewed, is available now in paperback!
“Book 4 in the K9 series is a must read for those who enjoy well researched and detailed crime narratives. The author does a remarkable job of bringing to life the cold dark horror that is Chris Watts throughout the narrative but especially on the morning in the aftermath of the murders. Chris’s actions are connected by Nick van der Leek’s eloquent use of a timeline to reveal a motive.”
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